MORE TRAGIC NEWS

[Politically Incorrect]

Sad to say it has happened again.

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story. ... tm&sc=1110

Once again I'll add some more families to my thoughts and prayers.

[Travis]

How exactly did the towplane colide with the glider?  The pilot of the towplane must have slowed WAY down . . .

[Hagar]

Ender. It doesn't say the the Piper Cub was towing the glider. The glider was most likely launched earlier & possibly returning to the field to land. I wouldn't have thought there would be a passenger aboard a glider tug, especially when the glider had 2 people aboard.

I haven't had much experience of air tows myself but know it's quite easy for the glider to drag the tug out of the air or at least make it stall if you're not careful.

PS. This type of accident involving 2 completely different types of aerial activity operating from the same field is unfortunately not uncommon.

[Travis]

I see.  Too bad.  I've heard many a horror story associated with glider flying (my father has a license) and after hearing such stories, I would rather be the tug than the glider, personally . . .

[Politically Incorrect]

The CNN story is vague, it doesn't say if the Cub was a tow plane. Well actually the story doesn't give hardly any information.
I'm looking for more info because I'm curious as if this was a tow plane accident or if it was inproper radio communication.
That is a problem I face where I take my training, I'll be practiceing in the pattern using the radio to announce my location as needed then the hotshots will fly in in thier Lears or turo props and do a straight in approach, without using the radio!!!!!!!!!! They know that there are people training there in proper procedure but apparently feel that because of thier aircraft and "years" of flying they aren't required to announce thier position or intentions.

Flying is hard enough and the people who feel they are better than you cause a extremliy dangerous situation.
Nothing like announceing your turn on final and then looking to your right to see a aircraft faster than you "cut in" front flying a un-announced straight in approach!!!!
These close calls have happened to me a couple of times which have made me a better student when it comes to watching for traffic, but also makes me more tense while trying to learn,
All it takes is proper use of the radio!!!!
By the way the last time this had happened to me I confronted the guy on the ground and his reply was "If you don't know how to fly stay on the ground and watch us who do"
My reply was "We'll see what the FAA has to say about this!"
To this day I haven't scene him around our local airport!
Good news to all who fly here!!
But a good lesson for all new and vetern pilots, always watch for traffic because the next moron might not use the radio!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hagar]

I don't think the Piper Cub had anything to do with the glider. A tug pilot would be well aware of the risks & be on constant lookout for them.

We have several small fields in the UK that specialise in all kinds of recreational aerial activities. These include ordinary power flying, gliding & parachuting. I have seen several terrible accidents involving 2 different activities before & don't doubt it will happen again. The risk is always there. I'm not saying it's all their fault but too many power pilots appear to be unaware of the limitations of the people they share the field with. Although gliders & parachutes are very controllable compared with years ago they should be treated more like sailing boats & have the right of way. Like any other activity, gliding is quite safe providing you & everyone else are aware of the risks & obey the rules.

I was horrified on my first trip to the US to see light aircraft sharing not only the same airports but also the same runways as the heavy passenger jets. Apparently this is quite normal. Fortunately this is rare in the UK & I hope it remains so.

[Politically Incorrect]

out of curiosity, is a Piper Cub heavy and powerfull enough to tow a glider?
I'm not that well informed of gliding but am interested in learning more about it. But I can't see a J-3 Cub being suitable for towing.
And speaking of GA aircraft flying in and out of airports that have passenger jets, I'll be doing that this weekend. I asked my instructor to let me go there to experiance a towered airport and see and learn how it works.
I'm looking forward to experianceing traffic other than what I'm used to here at my home airport.
Maybe I'll see or feel some of the effects of taking off after a plane larger than mine!!
Don't worry i have a awesome instructor that would never allow anything harmful happen!!
But I would like to experiance it with someone who knows what they're doing, instead of finding out by myself.
A good example is my boss, He just got his license and bought himself a plane and went flying this weekend.
Nice weekend to fly but also his first experiance with icing!! He didn't know what to do! My first experiance with icing will be with my instructor! I don't want to be caught with my pants down!!
But what can I say I think he learned (memorized) what was needed to pass "The Test", I on the other hand want to learn and know what to do in case of a emergency,icing, etc.
So another tip for new aviators: No Question is STUPID!! Ask your instructor after all it is your money!! And could possibly be your life!!

[Hagar]

A Piper Cub is certainly capable of towing a glider.

[Travis]

Yes, a Piper Cub is big enough to tug ANY glider.

At least I think!

Good luck on your flights, fretnstuff!  I envy you!

[Politically Incorrect]

Thanks!
And thank you Hagar for coming to the call again!!
I bookmarked the site and will check it out completely tonight when I get home from work!
It is easy to lose track of time at SimV!!!

[BFMF]

.
Nothing like announceing your turn on final and then looking to your right to see a aircraft faster than you "cut in" front flying a un-announced straight in approach!!!!
These close calls have happened to me a couple of times which have made me a better student when it comes to watching for traffic, but also makes me more tense while trying to learn,
All it takes is proper use of the radio!!!!
By the way the last time this had happened to me I confronted the guy on the ground and his reply was "If you don't know how to fly stay on the ground and watch us who do"
My reply was "We'll see what the FAA has to say about this!"
To this day I haven't scene him around our local airport!

Once, Several years ago, I was flying with my dad and we were coming in on final after announcing our intentions on the radio when some other bloke taxied onto the runway. We had to quickly do a go-around. One he found out what happened he apologized over the radio.

It sure was a closecall

[Hagar]

In my day a radio in a light aircraft was very rare. The sky might not have been so crowded as it is now but pilots managed well enough without it. This is my point about different activities taking place on the same field. I believe that many microlights & gliders still have no radio. Hang gliders - powered or not, paragliders & parachutists certainly don't.

[Politically Incorrect]

It all boils down to  "beware of your surroundings and watch out for the one that's not watching out for you!"

Andrew , I too have seen similar happen while sitting at the airport watching planes.
The pilot had a few buddies with him and they were chatting up a storm. They taxied right on to the runway, without doing any final checks, never radioed thier intentions and preceeded to start thier takeoff. At that same time another plane who had clearance had just touch down coming the direction he was told to, so here are two planes heading directly at each other one taking off the other trying to land.
Fortunately the landing plane slowed enough to dodge off the runway just in the nick of time!!!  and as the other plane took off (on the wrong runway mind you) he was still talking away like nothing happened!

[OTTOL]

On occassion I attend FAA safety seminars. It's a good mix of GA and Prof. pilots, and I think everyone benefits from it. The busiest one of these meetings that I have seen though, was one that focused on ATC and Pilot interaction and Radio communications. Every seat was filled, and there was an excess of people that stood in the hallway just to hear what was going on. ....a hot topic one would have to assume!
I think the biggest problem is communication not skill, etiquette OR experience. The guy that snapped at you is just as guilty andrew and hopefully through experience HE will learn his lesson, and not kill anyone in the process. At least you had the awareness to realize the problem. Inability to communicate exists at ALL experience levels and IMO makes the difference between a good pilot and a good CAPTAIN! "Read back all hold short instructions" is a prime example. This should be taught at the earliest levels, and is the one of the foundations for safe operation through proper, smart communication. I see it everyday though. Tower will call "Delta 592 hold short of RWY 9L...landing traffic", to which a professional pilot in an airliner will reply "roger", and nothing else! "Roger holding short 9L..Delta's 592" takes about .5 additional seconds to say, and let's all aircraft within close proximity(esp. the one about to land), as well as the tower, know that the "hold short" instruction was received. It seems simple, but the worst ground accident in aviation history occured because of a breakdown in communication. There have been several accidents in recent years, one just happened in St. Pete (KPIE), that could have been avoided by simply looking to see if anyone is getting ready to land on them before they taxied onto an active runway.

[XOBLAB]

Turf uses Cessnas as tow planes.  The J3 was just a recreational flyer