Fighter Armour

[ozzy72]

Will I'm not having a go at the medical services, I'm having a go at the government, they don't provide the funding, but they all go off on 6 week fact finding tours to the Maldives at the tax payers expense!
That is what makes me ashamed to be British These worthless individuals, with their index-linked pensions, their huge wages just for turning up too work, and the fact that they seem to do less than nothing. My mum was a nurse for over 40 years, she has an 8000 pound a year pension before tax!

Mark

[Hagar]

Hi Will. I was hoping you would give us your professional opinion on this. I realise you can't rely on media reports but understand this is a frail old man weighing under 10 stone. Now I'm convinced that 2 properly trained paramedics would be quite cabable of lifting him safely without injury to either him or themselves. If they can't do this they're not suitable for the job. IMHO
The health authority were apparently aware of what had happened so why send them in the first place if they were not allowed to help? From the report, the carer helped him up on her own.

Fortunately Sir Patrick's daily carer, who was not due until the evening, was passing by and came into the house to help the fighter ace

I don't blame the paramedics, they were simply following the rules. Not sure I blame the health authority either. I suspect they're more frightened of being sued for something or other & make rules to cover themselves. That's the shame of it & the "caring" society we live in. I'm scared of gettting old.

PS, I'm sure your Mum would have ignored the rules & done everything she could to at least make the old man comfortable.

[Smoke2much]

I agree with you about the politicians Mark, always have and always will.  What Pees me off is the underlying sense that people have that I should ruin my health on account of my job.  That my job implies that I somehow owe people something.  We (health workers) are constantly under attack in the press whether we do our job right or not.  If we do our job to the letter we get complaints, if we take risks we get complaints and sued.  Lose lose situation.

People constantly complain about the NHS.  Food, waiting times, cleanliness. I work in the newest hospital in Europe and have had my care and the building described, to my face, as "third world".  I refused to give a patient who had a bleeding stomach ulcer a cup of tea.  I was right but received no apology, and expected none.

These newspaper reports are designed to be inflammatory and get people worked up.  You will notice that the people complaining are "Sir and Lady".  Do you think that if they were Mr and Mrs and he had been an Airman during WW2 that they would have received any press attention at all?  I don't.

Will

[Hagar]

Sorry Will. I had just heard about this on the radio when I posted it. I don't mind admitting it made me mad.

These newspaper reports are designed to be inflammatory and get people worked up.  You will notice that the people complaining are "Sir and Lady".  Do you think that if they were Mr and Mrs and he had been an Airman during WW2 that they would have received any press attention at all?  I don't.

I appreciate what you're saying. I don't know anything about this man but I'm sure the knighthood was deserved. That's not the point. My question is - how many other poor souls are treated like this due to the litigation-crazy world we live in? If we allow this to continue nobody will dare to help anyone, no matter what danger they're in.

[ozzy72]

You want to see a bad hospital you should visit Romania Will. I think all these half-wits that moan in Britain should be made to see the top hospital in Bucharest, I think they'd can the moaning on the spot.
A good friend of ours wife died there recently, due to complications arising from using rusty surgical instruments leading to a serious infection.
Some of the hospitals here are pretty scary too (actually all the ones I've seen!). I'm talking about cockroaches the size of my little finger (and I've got pretty big hands), and rats that are nearly as big as cats! And the doctors are paid about 100 pounds a month. Is it any wonder that they all go abroad to work They are about the only people paid less than teachers here.....
Mind you Britain isn't much better.
I've got a great solution. Lets kill all the politicians and setup a giant commune, with one person acting as executive officer for the week, and all decisions ratified by an executive team. Or have I been watching Quest For The Holy Grail too much again?

Mark

[Smoke2much]

Sorry Hagar, you replied whilst I was responding to Mark's comments.  The thing with lifting is that we are not allowed to do it, period.  The carer shouldn't have lifted him either, that she did was her decision and she would have been under pressure from her employer to do something.

My response to the situation is impossible to know as I wasn't there but in my experience people of a certain age and background consider us to be servants and treat us in this manner.  I have often found my self in the situation of being informed that I am "not allowed" to give a patient oxygen or put the bed sides up as "He won't like that"  On one occasion I was called to a stroke patient who had suffered a stroke and was choking.  We (the 'team') had informed the family that due to the fact that his swallow reflex was compromised he was unable to eat and drink and was therefore nil by mouth.  His Son, a highly intelligent man, had decided that this was simply not good enough for Father and had given him a drink of water.  Now in addition to the stroke he developed an inhalation Pneumonia and nearly died  The family tried (unsuccsesfully) to sue the hospital due to the hospital acquired infection.....

I would bet that in this situation the crew arrived and were greeted by a relative who immediately started berating them for not getting there sooner (she had waited an hour).  They probably found the gentleman slumped in a corner somewhere and knew that they were going to have to apply brute force to get him anywhere.  Patients of this sort invariably cry out when you lay a finger on them and his wife may have been in the back ground shouting "Stop it! you are hurting him."

Alternatively two guys who couldn't give a F**k were sent round to get the poor old gent back to his bed and decided that they couldn't be bothered.

Normally I would agree that it is odd that they were unable to move the gentleman onto a stretcher and then transfer him to his bed and considering that he was frail and less than ten stone I would imagine that I would be capable of lifting him alone.

I guess we'll never know.  Apologies for any offense caused to the upper and middle classes who think that they're better than me because daddy was loaded.

Will

[Smoke2much]

You want to see a bad hospital you should visit Romania Will. I think all these half-wits that moan in Britain should be made to see the top hospital in Bucharest, I think they'd can the moaning on the spot.

That's what made me so angry about the comments Mark.

[Hagar]

Sorry if I caused any offence. I was not trying to have a go at how the health service is run or how almost everything in this country has deteriorated over the last few years. I would need a complete new thread to do that. LOL

I was simply trying to point out how badly this country has always treated its war heroes. The continued loyalty of our armed forces has never ceased to amaze me.

[Smoke2much]

You didn't offend me Hagar, the journalist that I quoted did.  I am in full agreement with both you and Mark about the way this country treats people.  It seems to be a tradition that young men (and increasing numbers of young women) give the best years of their lives in defense of the rest of us and are treated like poo for the privelage (spelling?).

Our country has an aging population, there will be more pensioners than working age people in a few years and they are expected to live on about four shillings and sixpence a week, it is shameful.  This isn't a generation (like mine) who have been warned to make our own provisions for the future.  These are people who were blithley assured by government after government that their NI contributions would be enough to meet their future needs.  I see far too many people each week that need admission to hospital simply because they cannot afford to provide for themselves.  If this winter is as cold as the summer has been hot (as usually seems to be the case over here) I dread to think of the consequences/  It's going to be the Gettysburg scene from Gone with the Wind in hospitals all over the country.

Will

[ozzy72]

Maybe we should all hobble around with our walking frames muttering "Frankly my dear I DO give a damn!"

[Smoke2much]

Maybe we should all hobble around with our walking frames muttering "Frankly my dear I DO give a damn!"

LOL, good one Mark!

Can I take this opportunity to apologise for Hi-jacking a perfectly good thread and ranting about my personal pet rant.  I am interested in WW2 fighter armour, honest.

Will

[ozzy72]

Only 'cos you have to wear it at home Will when you've been a bad boy

Mark

[Professor Brensec]

I'm sure the knighthood was deserved

Nail on the head Hagar.

I'm sure it's the same as it is here.

the Fighter Ace's Knighthood was deserved for many reasons - on e for his dodging bullets. The Civil servants who are Knighted as a matter of course, get theirs for dodging work and responsibility and accountability.
 ;D ;)
How dare they even consider bestowing the same honour on a Civil Servant that they do on a War hero!  >:(