VFR or IFR?

[Air Vandalay]

I've gradually made the transition from props, to turboprops, to airliners in FSX, but I have to ask; do airliners generally fly VFR or IFR? is it weather conditions that dictate this? also is it common to fly VFR (using a STAR arrival) and land using ILS?..

Thank you in advance for not laughing at my dumb questions

[JimPilot]

What's the saying? The only stupid question is the one not asked? (See my post about departure procedures.) Anyway, in the real world, VFR flight is only valid to 18,000ft, after which IFR is required. So I would imagine most if not all airliners fly well above that level. Sorry, can't help with your second question, I still have lots to learn.

[DaveSims]

Actually all Part 121 scheduled operators (airlines) are required to fly on IFR flight plans.  Altitude has nothing to do with it.

[-Crossfire-]

[quote]Actually all Part 121 scheduled operators (airlines) are required to fly on IFR flight plans.

[DaveSims]

[quote][quote]Actually all Part 121 scheduled operators (airlines) are required to fly on IFR flight plans.

[Air Vandalay]

That kinda takes all the fun out of getiing a payware plane, and learning how to program the FMS, etc, only to have the IFR controller where & when to turn...to me in FSX, flying VFR is more of a challenge..

[Splinter562]

That kinda takes all the fun out of getiing a payware plane, and learning how to program the FMS, etc, only to have the IFR controller where & when to turn...to me in FSX, flying VFR is more of a challenge..

... and now you understand why there are many real-world pilots (myself included) that are crazy about aviation but have zero interest in flying for an airline.

[Sovien]

That kinda takes all the fun out of getiing a payware plane, and learning how to program the FMS, etc, only to have the IFR controller where & when to turn...to me in FSX, flying VFR is more of a challenge..

It's not simulating realism, but whenever I fly the big birds (which is pretty much all the time now), I set up a VFR flight plan, then set up the FMC accordingly. Works great for me, but again, is a departure from realism.

I have noticed, that on some IFR plans I have flown, the route I set up is pretty much the same as the route that the AI ATC was vectoring me to fly. I only deviated by 10-15 degrees heading from time to time, but this did not create big problems for me with the AI ATC.

[F35LightningII]

I believe airliners go IFR pretty much all the time

[Jokerc152]

Yeah VFR is only really good up to FL180 after that its IFR but I think most airliners fly full IFR from departure ? :L

[beaky]

Yeah VFR is only really good up to FL180 after that its IFR but I think most airliners fly full IFR from departure ? :L

Yes... and because of where their operation fits into the FAR "parts", in the US they must file IFR and use the ATC system, even if it's a beautiful day and they aren't going above 18,000 MSL.
Remember, "airline", as far as the regs go (Part 121), means "scheduled commercial carriage of persons or goods"... there are many aircraft and flights that fall into that category other than big jets cruising way up above the weather on long flights. Those FedEx Caravans you see sometimes are airliners (Part 121), so they file IFR even if it's a 1-hour flight in VMC

[coolness]

The only airline i have ever heard of not using IFR flightplans, is the Janet airlines because its all top secret and an IFR flightplan would leave a trail. guess they are flying VFR...
Wouldn't surprise me if some of those blacklisted airliners are not always operating under instrument flight rules as well.

[beaky]

The only airline i have ever heard of not using IFR flightplans, is the Janet airlines because its all top secret and an IFR flightplan would leave a trail. guess they are flying VFR...
Wouldn't surprise me if some of those blacklisted airliners are not always operating under instrument flight rules as well.

My guess is that they are handled by military ATC, possibly in (limited) coordination with civil ATC... if they are going to fly in the soup or above 18,000, they will be mixing it up with other traffic. For their own safety, that would make sense. Or maybe they just have very reliable TCAS on board... 

[Dave71K]

I wouldn't worry about FSX ATC it's pretty useless and unrealistic.
I generally get an aircraft and set up a flight plan using the FMC with the correct SIDS and STARS.
FSX ATC doesn't use SIDS or STARS what so ever where as in real life there pretty much use at all times for airlines.
So I would say to just ignore it and set up VRF plans but fly them as if your in IFR.

[P51FAN]

Above 18,000 feet is class A airspace (at least here in Canada), and Class A requires you to be on an IFR flight plan.

Not exactly true. From the Aeronautical Information Manual:
3[ch8722]2[ch8722]2. Class A Airspace
a. Definition. Generally, that airspace from
18,000 feet MSL up to and including FL 600,
including the airspace overlying the waters within
12 nautical miles of the coast of the 48 contiguous
States and Alaska; and designated international
airspace beyond 12 nautical miles of the coast of the
48 contiguous States and Alaska within areas of
domestic radio navigational signal or ATC radar
coverage, and within which domestic procedures are
applied.
b. Operating Rules and Pilot/Equipment
Requirements. Unless otherwise authorized, all
persons must operate their aircraft under IFR. (See
14 CFR Section 71.33 and 14 CFR Section 91.167
through 14 CFR Section 91.193.)