Simple question about the SP2 prop texture issue

[Daube]

Hi all,

Since I had to reinstall my FSX recently, I am now reinstalling some planes addons, and of course, my FSX is SP2, I get this typical propeller display problem on my FS9 planes. Of course I know the solution (kind of) for that problem, however there is still something that disturbs me...

I was installing some of the default FS9 planes back in FSX (yes, I love them, C182, Comet, Jenny, Vega and Tri-motor are MUST-HAVE), and while testing the DeHavilland Comet, I noticed that the prop texture issue is happening ONLY in external view. Why ? How comes the prop is PERFECTLY DISPLAYED in VC mode but not in external view ? Isn't it the same texture with the same Alpha Channel ?

Thanks in advance for your explanations

[Brett_Henderson]

Some models use the same bitmap for prop-disks, some have a seperate, interior model prop-disk texture. I experimented with both on the Cardinal, and settled on two, because I couldn't get the "look" I wanted during my battle to keep chrome from going black at night.. :-/


Edit:

[NickN]

Phil Taylor has provided a nice little writeup on the prop issue and how to fix

http://blogs.msdn.com/ptaylor/archive/2 ... x-sp2.aspx

[Daube]

Thanks Brett and Nick, however this does not answer my question.
I would like to understand why it works perfectly in VC and not in external.
In the VC the prop is not displayed behind autogen and clouds.

And I know for DX10, but I'm not concerned by this problem yet, since my computer is just an old piece of junk.

[Werd]

I noticed the same thing and have absolutely no idea why it's like that. The texture is the same by the way.

[Brett_Henderson]

OHHH.. ok    sorry...

I'm not completely sure.. but I'll bet it has something to do with the fact that an FSX aircraft has a completely seperate model for the interior...  Where FS9 models are compiled into one .mdl file.. and that you're looking at the prop "through" a glass material while in VC.

[Werd]

Nope, when you move the camera out of the aicraft you will see the VC model from outside with absolutely no prop transarency problem at all.

[Brett_Henderson]

Interesting... hmmm ..  then it's still gotta have something to do with both models forced into one, for FS9, and the rendering priority of animated parts.

[Gypsy_Baron]

Thanks Brett and Nick, however this does not answer my question.
I would like to understand why it works perfectly in VC and not in external.
In the VC the prop is not displayed behind autogen and clouds.

And I know for DX10, but I'm not concerned by this problem yet, since my computer is just an old piece of junk.

As an related note...I have found an FS9 plane where the "SP2 induced" problem is just
the opposite. From external view ther props are fine vis a vis clouds and background textures
but in the VC I can't see the prop disk against the engine nacelles or clouds.

It's the Armsrong Whitworth Argosy by Rick Piper.  I was able to overcome the other "SP2 induced"
problems of transparent textures becoming reflective and VC parts becoming transparent but
I've not tried to do anything with the props.


EDIT: this is XP SP2 DX9, of course. The problems started with SP2 so there was something done
    to provide the useless "DX10 preview" that PORKED FS9 aircraft that were fine in FSX  prior to SP2.

    Paul

[Daube]

Interesting... the Argosy you said ? The cargo plane with the excellent virtual cockpit ?
I have it but I have not installed it on FSX yet. I will have a look this evening if I have time, thanks for your remark !

[Gypsy_Baron]

Interesting... the Argosy you said ? The cargo plane with the excellent virtual cockpit ?
I have it but I have not installed it on FSX yet. I will have a look this evening if I have time, thanks for your remark !

You will most likely find there are some reflective textures in the VC as well as transparent areas of
the VC. I did some "re-painting" of some of the textures and got the VC back to almost pre-SP2 status.

    Paul

[Daube]

Thanks for the info, I have just downloaded DTXtoBMP for correcting those textures.
The VC gauges are all working fine ?

[Gypsy_Baron]

Thanks for the info, I have just downloaded DTXtoBMP for correcting those textures.
The VC gauges are all working fine ?

Yes, the gauges are all XML and work fine. I believe I had some difficulty getting the engines
started from cold & dark and I installed some workaround starters but recently I noted
that the original starter on the overhead panel is working just fine. I don't recall modifying
that code at all.

Looking a bit more closely now at what I modified I see these changes in the "panel.cfg" file.
For the Vcockpits sections I changed the background color from 0,0,0 to:

Vcockpit01 to 08
Background_color=128,128,128

except

Vcockpit04
Background_color=103,103,103  ( overhead )

The change to the background colors fixes the SP2 induced issue where some
VC parts become "reflective" when untextured. This is most noticable in areas
of the overhead panel.

In the panel folder I modified the following textures:

vcpanelright.bmp
vcpanelleft.bmp
Argosy_Main_Ind.bmp

Using DTXBmp and Paint, I replaced the transparent ( color 0,0,0 ) areas
BELOW the panel bitmap areas with the same grey color as the panel.
This removed the SP2 induced transparent texture issues in the VC ( see through areas ).

I did replace the prop BMP I see, with one from another aircraft that worked in FSX.
This may be why I'm seeing the "reverse" cloud issues.  I believe I used the prop
BMP from the HS748 by Rick Piper as a substitute renaming the "Prop_Left.bmp"
from that model to "4blade1.bmp" for the Argosy.


I've had to make so many changes to my favorite FS9 imports since the SP2 induced
problems arose that I've lost trac kof amany of them. I did compare a 'virgin" Argosy
install from FS9 to my modified FSX install to itemize the above changes.

I really enjoy flying the argosy sine I have a Saitek Pro yoke and two throttle
quadrants, giving me individual throttle controls for each engine.

FYI, the HS748, BAC 1-11 and Comet3 & 4 work in FSX, again with some changes
similar to what I had to do to with the Argosy.

  Paul

[Daube]

yes I knew for the planes from DMFlightSim.com (among the BEST-POSSIBLE-EVER freeware planes with VCs available for FS9 and FSX), but at the time I tested I got a framerate impact that I could not explain. Didn't test with SP2 yet, though...
Thanks for your explanation, I will begin the experiment, but first I have to make a list of the addons I have that get transparency problems in the cockpit. I'm currently testing a bunch of Tim Conrads recent Sci-Fi addons, and they all work flawlessly !

[macca22au]

The FSD Navajo has the black prop tips visible from the VC at full revs.  Very disconcerting.  The Phil Taylor suggested fixes are just too complicated for an amateur like me.  Soon, we will be faced with ditching our older much loved aircraft.  Again the DA Katana X has an opaque overlay on the panel although the gauges are visible.  

Are any ready to use patches available, or work arounds that more skilled individuals have developed?

SP1 and SP2 fixed things, but incomprehensibly broke other aspects that should have been left alone.  And we are told these won't be fixed at all.