IFR flights

[Panther91]

I was flying a IFR flight in Croatia with a Baron 58. The flight was about 100 nm, and the weather was fogged. Both of the airports, the departure and destination were controlled airports. So I got and IFR clearence, I took off and resumed own navigation, climbed on 7000 feet. When I got about 83 miles from my destination the controller talked to me, I don't know which because he didn't say so I gues my destination controller, he said to me that I'm 83 miles far from him, he said to me to turn right and to expect VECTORS VISUAL for runway 22. What does it mean VECTORS VISUAL? And why is he already talking to me?

I proceeded my flight according to his instructions, and I expected his vectoes visual but I didn't get them. I even passed my destination for about 25 nm. I then called the tower and requested landing, and he said to fly RIGHT BASE for runway 22. What is RIGHT BASE? The traffic pattern? The base leg of the traffic pattern which requires me to turn right to my runway? How am I suppose to fly that if the weather is fogged and I don't see anything? There are two runways on that airport: 04/22 and 14/32, but for runway 22 there is no approach chart. I got approach charts for 04,14,32 but for runway 22 it doesn't exist.

So, why did he called me from 83 miles?

Why did he tell me to expect vectors visual if I didn't get any vectors to that runway later?

How am I suppose to fly RIGHT BASE for runway 22 if the weather was well fogged and I don't see the airport?

Is there a way to request a VOR or a ILS approach? I tried to talk to the approach and not the tower but there was nothing special to request.

Do I even have to talk to the tower and request landing on a IFR flight?

[Fozzer]

.......Do I even have to talk to the tower and request landing on a IFR flight?

Not really...

It's only a fun Computer Game... ... ... ...!

Paul....Pretending to fly an aeroplane... 8-)...!

[Sean_TK]

All right, now for a brief and dirty IFR lesson....

In IFR conditions, with very few exceptions, you are always in radar contact with an air traffic control agency, whether it is tower, approach, departure, or a center controller.

When you were approaching your destination, I imagine approach control was speaking with you at this time. What he/she is trying to accomplish is to get you vectored around to both surpass any mountains/obstacles and to get you lined up within a certain number of degrees to the proper runway. This will require vectoring so you can land properly while following the established approach procedures, this also sets a standard for other aircraft to fly so you don't have traffic wandering around in the airspace looking for the field on their own.
In the case of the airport you mentioned, it looks as if the controller considered the weather conditions to be above visual approach minimums, so you were able to land on 22, which by the sounds of it, does not have instrument approach procedures.
Remember, the weather at the airport can be very different from the weather 80 miles away...

To reference other sections of you post, your landing runway was probably in the opposite direction of your route, so you had to be vectored past the airport and turned around in order to properly approach it. There also had to be an option in there in order to call the runway in sight, if you were doing a visual approach. After you call the runway, you will usually receive approach clearance right away, and then you will have to switch to the tower frequency, and state your intentions. They will then clear you for landing. Sometimes you are able to call the runway in sight before the downwind, and prevent the whole long turnaround thing. (This is how FS handles it anyway..)

The base leg is a leg of the traffic pattern before the final approach. To fly right base is to enter the base leg of the pattern as if it was a right-hand traffic pattern.

Here's a textual outline of the traffic pattern:

Climbout from the runway.....Upwind
First left or right turn after departure.......Crosswind
Wings level and going past the airport in opposite direction....Downwind
Second left or right turn..........Base
Path after turn where you should be lined up with the runway.....Final.

A traffic pattern can be either a left hand pattern (standard), or right hand pattern (usually if there is terrain preventing standard pattern from occurring).

There should be a way to request other types of approaches right after you are told what approach to expect in the initial call when you first start your vectors....

And in an IFR flight, you always have  to be in contact with the control tower of a field equipped with one if you are going to land there, no exceptions....(other than radio failures!)


EDIT: Oh, and "Vectors Visual" purely means that you will be vectored around to execute a visual approach, which is an approach which solely references the outside runway environment, rather than the course needles on the panel.

I can easily get a lot more specific on any of this, and if you have any more questions on how FS handles this sort of stuff, please ask.
All of the stuff I mentioned previously is a narration of how FS2004 handles IFR, and some things can be different in real life.

[DaveSims]

Panther,

I've noticed you've been asking a lot of questions that could be answered by tutorials or just learning by doing.  That's how most of us did it.  Remember it is just a game, worst thing that might happen is you hit the reset button.

[Fozzer]

Panther,

I've noticed you've been asking a lot of questions that could be answered by tutorials or just learning by doing.  That's how most of us did it.  Remember it is just a game, worst thing that might happen is you hit the reset button.

..... ....!

I have this funny little flag whizzing round on the top of my Computer Monitor.
If I blow on it to slow it down, I can read "Troll" on one side and "Forum Spammer" on the other side.

When I stop blowing on it, it whizzes round happily again!... ...!

It's a funny old do... ...!

Paul... ...!

[Sean_TK]

I think this was an acceptable question seeing as how he just wanted clarification on specific features of the IFR system....but that's just my opinion.
And not to discourage asking questions, but there IS a "learning center" along with flight lesson feature in FS2004, but if you are still having trouble grasping a concept, I'm sure most of us will be glad to help. These questions help keep the real world pilots here sharp too!

[DaveSims]

I think this was an acceptable question seeing as how he just wanted clarification on specific features of the IFR system....but that's just my opinion.
And not to discourage asking questions, but there IS a "learning center" along with flight lesson feature in FS2004, but if you are still having trouble grasping a concept, I'm sure most of us will be glad to help. These questions help keep the real world pilots here sharp too!

The only reason I said anything is because lately Panther has asked about 50 questions a day, and when you answer he asks more.  Its not that I don't mind helping from time to time, but sometimes it helps to learn by trial and error.

[727 driver]

a game...i dont think so .it is a simulation of flight...though alot of planes dont have the real feel by default they can be tweeked to obtain a more relistic feel..as far as navigation frequencys ils approaches ndb  they are 100 %..thats not something i would call a game..when full scale pilots are in there simulators they are not in a real aircraft and im sure they dont see it as playing a game..its a learning experence..as it is for all of us..and if it were a game the FAA would not allow 10 hours of instrument simulator time to be logged into there log books as instrument simulator time if it was a game..i know for myself how much fs  keeps you in the feel of things when i fly the full scale aircraft i fly..so i respectfully and politely disagree with the fact of flight sim being a game ..it is very much more than that..regards

.......Do I even have to talk to the tower and request landing on a IFR flight?

Not really...

It's only a fun Computer Game... ... ... ...!

Paul....Pretending to fly an aeroplane... 8-)...!

[gypsymoth]

Thanks 727 as I think of FS as a learning experience especially
when  it can spur some people on to learn to fly.   8-)

[Fozzer]

a game...i dont think so .it is a simulation of flight...though alot of planes dont have the real feel by default they can be tweeked to obtain a more relistic feel..as far as navigation frequencys ils approaches ndb  they are 100 %..thats not something i would call a game..when full scale pilots are in there simulators they are not in a real aircraft and im sure they dont see it as playing a game..its a learning experence..as it is for all of us..and if it were a game the FAA would not allow 10 hours of instrument simulator time to be logged into there log books as instrument simulator time if it was a game..i know for myself how much fs  keeps you in the feel of things when i fly the full scale aircraft i fly..so i respectfully and politely disagree with the fact of flight sim being a game ..it is very much more than that..regards

.......Do I even have to talk to the tower and request landing on a IFR flight?

Not really...

It's only a fun Computer Game... ... ... ...!

Paul....Pretending to fly an aeroplane... 8-)...!

The beauty of a "Game" is that after playing it for a while, the player can "switch off" and return to everyday normality again....

The danger of some "Simulator" players, is that they appear to take it so seriously that it no longer appears to be an illusion, to the extent that it actually takes over their life, and results in never ending Forum discussions on various subjects relating to the "Game" players experience, with the sole intention of retaining a captive audience in the process.

The distinction between illusion and reality becomes blurred in the mind... ..!

Paul....G-BPLF... ...!

Popping outside to mow the grass.....
My petrol Lawn Mower does not require special landing instructions from Gardeners World....fortunately... ...!

"Lawn Mower Simulator", anyone?... ... ... ...!

[Brett_Henderson]

The danger of some "Simulator" players, is that they appear to take it so seriously that it no longer appears to be an illusion, to the extent that it actually takes over their life, and results in never ending Forum discussions on various subjects relating to the "Game" players experience, with the sole intention of retaining a captive audience in the process.

Nah..   ... some people discover how much there is to be learned, and how much fun it is to learn it all, and can't learn it fast enough .. and enthusiasm takes over

[727 driver]

well that can be said for anything..the beauty of rideing my motorcycle is at the end of the day parking it after an awsum ride..same is said when i fly my arrow at the local airport..i dont see myself on a chopper or when flyng at 5500 feet in the plane that im flying a 747..the sim is the sim..its not like x box where u get shot 37 times get a life cherry and keep running ..u crach your done..thats how u learn..in the sim when the flight is done you shut it down and do it again when you can..as far as illusion ..whats wrong with that..its reality that sucks..and there is also nothing wrong with takeing it serious..it is for many a stepping stone for some to fly as a career..i would agree though if family and other things like as you said mowing the lawn get put aside because a sim flight needs to leave at 603pm eastern standard time because theres a cold front moveing in and the passengers dont wanna be late and your flight attendents have cramps .. then well ya i think there are some issues..letting anything run your life ...boating fishing motrorcycling radio control flying and yes the sim is not a good thing..and 1 last thing..a lawn mower simulator????i almost fell out of my chair when i saw that..i kinda got a visual..could you immagin. hey does your mower have gps...set and go.. [quote][quote]a game...i dont think so .it is a simulation of flight...though alot of planes dont have the real feel by default they can be tweeked to obtain a more relistic feel..as far as navigation frequencys ils approaches ndb

[727 driver]

100 % right..

The danger of some "Simulator" players, is that they appear to take it so seriously that it no longer appears to be an illusion, to the extent that it actually takes over their life, and results in never ending Forum discussions on various subjects relating to the "Game" players experience, with the sole intention of retaining a captive audience in the process.

Nah..

[BFMF]

a lawn mower simulator????i almost fell out of my chair when i saw that..i kinda got a visual..could you immagin. hey does your mower have gps...set and go..

That would be cheating.

We all know that real men use a compass and a map when mowing the lawn....

I would, but I live in an apartment...

[727 driver]

LOL i bought a vor for mine..thing is getting clearence from the tower.. 8-)

a lawn mower simulator????i almost fell out of my chair when i saw that..i kinda got a visual..could you immagin. hey does your mower have gps...set and go..

That would be cheating.

We all know that real men use a compass and a map when mowing the lawn....

I would, but I live in an apartment...