Size matters

[OldAirmail]

If I were to say how I feel about those who demand Zero Tolerance I would be kicked off of this site.

Zero tolerance, against one group or another, has been one of the defining characteristics of oppressive governments and societies the world over.

I had best leave it at that.


The original poster, obviously, is learning that encouraging file sharing of copyrighted material is not acceptable. He made a mistake, but shouldn't be hung for the first offence.

ANY website must prevent people from encouraging software piracy. And this website has acted properly in removing the offending URL and not the first time offender.

[Bass]

If I were to say how I feel about those who demand Zero Tolerance I would be kicked off of this site.

Zero tolerance, against one group or another, has been one of the defining characteristics of oppressive governments and societies the world over.

I had best leave it at that.


The original poster, obviously, is learning that encouraging file sharing of copyrighted material is not acceptable. He made a mistake, but shouldn't be hung for the first offence.

ANY website must prevent people from encouraging software piracy. And this website has acted properly in removing the offending URL and not the first time offender.

Well said mate, well said.
I think a lot of us agree with you

[gtirob01]

I suspect that many newcomers to the Flight Simulator World will have little, or now knowledge of what the word "Torrent" etc, means when they are merely searching for "something" on the internet.

The object they are searching for appears on a particular Site, and they just select it with no knowledge that it may be "wrong" to do so... ...

I suspect that many of us have done so in our distant past, before we became aware of the general concern over such Sites!

I imagine that a gentle reminder would be sufficient to enlighten a Member to the "legal?" ways of Flight Sim downloading/uploading in general, with no further ado!... ...!

...been there?... ...done it?... ...

Paul.... ...!

I agree here. Even recently I was looking online for a T-6 Texan/Harvard and came across one that looked quite nice. It was not from a torrent site, so I downloaded it. Come to find out after looking for info on this model that it was payware. I figured that perhaps since this was an older model it had been released as freeware as many designers will do for older models. Then I did find it still being sold. I went ahead and deleted the download simply because I did not want to be on that side of piracy. Yes, I did download it in the first place, and perhaps I should have done some research prior to the download... but in the end... the right move was made. So, even for may who have been doing this for a while can be caught off guard while searching for a certain aircraft/scenery. It is up to you as a person to do the right thing or not.

[Hawkeye07]

I think that crucifying a newbee who's been here for such a short time is rather excessive bordering on Puritanical to say the least and Flying Mouse is being quite self righteous. I wholeheartedly agree that Torrent sites rob developers and others of compensation for their products but to yell "Off with his head!" won't accomplish much. It's foolhardy to think that crucifying this newbee as a warning to others will do anything but cause the other simers who might be looking at torrents as a good idea to blow you off as a *%^$#!@#$ ! It would be more beneficial and supportive of the payware folks to open a new thread on "The Evils Of Torrent File Sharing". If some of the more knowledgeable members of our community could do this in an informative and insightful way I think it would have a more positive effect.
I also suspect that torrent file sharing is more prevalent than many of us realize. Consider this...whenever we log onto one of our favorite sim sites and see new freeware paint schemes or modified airfiles etc for payware aircraft do we ever ask the maker if he legally owns the original files he modified? Of course not, we just download their freebies and say thank you much, great job, keep 'em coming!
Here's another thought that just occurred to me. (My little brain is busy today!) Whenever we go to our public library and check out a book or sit down to read a periodical at the library aren't we committing priracy? The authors of those works created them expecting fair compensation for their effort - True? So when we read that library copy instead of buying our own we've cheated the author out of his/her compensation haven't we? And when we donate our already read books, like I have on several occasions, aren't we committing piracy? But this is acceptable because it's an established public service right? Maybe, but the authors are still cheated out of their money aren't they?
So, as I suggested earlier, if some of the more knowledgeable members could start a thread on the Evils of Torrents I think that would be much more productive than banishing a newbee for life.

[Flying Mouse]

Flying Mouse is being quite self righteous

Definition quoted:

Self-righteousness (also called sanctimoniousness, sententiousness, and holier-than-thou attitudes[1]) is a feeling or display of (usually smug) moral superiority[2] derived from a sense that one's beliefs, actions, or affiliations are of greater virtue than those of the average person.

The term "self-righteous" is often considered derogatory.....

............................................................................

Glad you know me enough to start a personal attack on me. I will leave it there.

I just stated my feeling with regard to torrents and the use of them.

I stick with my belief. Torrents are not some unknown thing. Most people using them knows exactly what it is and why they using it.

It is not for me to decide, I merely voiced my opinion on the matter at hand. I can also assure you that developers (both payware & freeware) would not take it as lightly. The very individuals who have gone to extremes to make our hobby what it is.

I prefer to stick up for the developers.

[Hawkeye07]

"Not how I see it.
Torrent software is a SERIOUS thing and should be treated with action 10x witch hunt.
We cannot show any form of tollerance for this kind of behaviour. Dragonic introduced DRM's and loaded price tags on games are the very reason because of tollerance.
Not making examples of torrent users by enforcing 0 tollerance will just breed more torrent users and more intrusive DRM's and more expensive price tags on software."

This was part of your statement- True? Just sounds to me like you're telling the folks who run this site what to do. A bit more demanding than just stating your opinion. If you reread the newbees followup comment he publicly apologized for his error (or as I see it, his fully blown screwup.) What more do you think he deserves? Make an example out of him? No warnings, no probation, just off with his head.
Let's not bother trying to educate him to the fact that this really does hurt the hobby in ways he might not have realized. Let's not bother to open a discussion on torrent piracy to enlighten the other folks here who might not really understand what the problem is but are embarassed to admit their ignorance. Hell, I didn't really know about payware aircraft being on torrent sites until about three months ago and I've been into flight simming for several years now. I had read next to nothing about piracy on any fltsim sites other than "we don't want that stuff here!" and "Zero tolerance on this site!" Well zero tolerance to exactly what?

Flying Mouse since you're so knowledgeable on this subject why don't you start off the Torrent Files re-education thread? I'll do some more research on the subject to back you up.

Now I've thrown down the gauntlet, your move Sir FM

[OldAirmail]

...

Whenever we go to our public library and check out a book or sit down to read a periodical at the library aren't we committing priracy? The authors of those works created them expecting fair compensation for their effort - True? So when we read that library copy instead of buying our own we've cheated the author out of his/her compensation haven't we? And when we donate our already read books, like I have on several occasions, aren't we committing piracy? But this is acceptable because it's an established public service right? Maybe, but the authors are still cheated out of their money aren't they?

....

Libraries pay for books that are intended to be loaned out. These books are actually a particular type of book that costs far more than any copy of the same book that you might buy.

When a library buys e-books, in whatever format, they are paying more than you would pay for the same file/book. AND their e-book can only be loaned out for a limited number of times. If they want to loan out the same title again, they have to repurchase the same book that has just reached it's loan limit.


"It would be more beneficial and supportive of the payware folks to open a new thread on "The Evils Of Torrent File Sharing". If some of the more knowledgeable members of our community could do this in an informative and insightful way I think it would have a more positive effect. "

With your comments so far, I'm not too sure that such a "discussion" wouldn't simply start a flame war. None of us need that.


Anyone who feels that there is some justification to software piracy will do it.

Anyone interested in the ethicacy of software piracy should be able to look it up on their own. Don't ask our opinion, read the opinions of scholars.

[Bass]

Just want to say, that the word "torrent" is not always equal with piracy!
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/torrent

Lots of countries/sites use the word in legal downloads! The russians ex, and even The Grey Wolves
http://www.thegreywolves.com/downloads/

[Hawkeye07]

OldAirmail just to clarify the point I never said "E Books", I was referring to hard cover books and libraries don't always buy these books. As I stated above I have donated several boxes worth of hardcover books to my local library. So was the author and publisher cheated out of their profits for those books? I guess it's all in your interpretation.

Bass, I see what you mean. I went to the Grey Wolves site and found "GWX3.fullsingleinstallexe.torrent" Learn something new everyday, thanks!

[Bass]

Thanks Hawkeye.
But thats not all, talking about nocd piracy.

On this site
http://www.lsh3.com/v5/index_en.html
you can read in the pdf install manual
------
We recommend for all users who bought a legal version of SH3 to install the
”No-DVD/Fixed EXE“, to make STARFORCE inoperative.
With this fixed exe SH3 can be played with all Windows versions, without a
DVD inserted into the drive!
---------

No wonder noone knows whats legal or not

[Hawkeye07]

OK Bass I just downloaded an EN version of the download instructions.

"STARFORCE – The outdated copy protection system of STARFORCE does not work under Windows 7 & VISTA and has to be bypassed"

So STARFORCE is outdated and the authors didn't incorporate an updated version. That's rather odd isn't it? Unless they closed up shop or just lost interest in the game and went on to other things. So now the copyrighted version playable for anyone ?

I see what you mean about legal downloads. It's not all black and white by any means.