Spits!!

[ATI_7500]

You surely do, boss.


But Spits still blow!

[ozzy72]

What is the difference between an Me-109 and a bucket full of whale poo? The bucket

[ATI_7500]

Do you know where the name "Spitfire" actually comes from?

- It spitting a fireball after getting only minor hits.

[Boca]

The ME 109 needed over 30 pounds  (14KG) of pressure on the stick to complete dogfighting manuevers. It's cockpit was tiny and only the smallest pilots could make the grade. On the other hand, the Spitfire could be manuevered with one finger on the control column making it far easier to fly.
   On the other hand, the Germans anticipated G-force effects on the engine and fitted a small pump which would make it continue to work in negative G conditions whereas if the Spitfire tried to follow, it's engines would cut out ( as would most other planes of the time). It was also faster in the dive.  The spitfires advantage came due to the shape of their laminate flow wings, and the fact that they could outturn a 109 without too much difficulty.
  Also, rather bizarrely, whilst the Spitfire improved with each Mark,  (Mark IX being over 100 Mph faster than a Mark II and able to climb 10,000 ft higher ),  Luftwaffe pilots hated the later marks of ME 109's, as it had become too big and heavy to be effective in a fight ( the ME109-G was over 660 pounds heavier than the F series). Yet for some bizarre reason, the Luftwaffe pilots preferred their older fighters to the superior Focke Wulfe 190.  :-/

So which was the superior plane ?   Well, I'm typing in English, aren't I ?  ;)

But seriously, the 109 was handicapped by very poor tactics by Luftwaffe superiors like Goering, who insisted that the fighters hand over their only advantage 'speed' away by having to slow down to escort the bombers. They also under-estimated the RAF ,and , for a short while, the planes they were coming up against. It was the Nazi's first defeat in the war, and it was all downhill from there on in for Adolf.

[C]

   On the other hand, the Germans anticipated G-force effects on the engine and fitted a small pump which would make it continue to work in negative G conditions whereas if the Spitfire tried to follow, it's engines would cut out

One of the first uses of fuel injection, which soon appeared on RR Merlins...

The spitfires advantage came due to the shape of their laminate flow wings, and the fact that they could outturn a 109 without too much difficulty.

Did the Spit have Laminar flow wings? - I thought the P-51 was the first to have them... Having said that, the Spit was able to have very thin wings, partly due to their elliptical planform.

[Souichiro]

[quote]*waves white flag* - I'm neutral in this dispute! I just wanted to say, great shots man!

[Hagar]

[quote][quote]

[Omag 2.0]

[quote][quote]*waves white flag* - I'm neutral in this dispute! I just wanted to say, great shots man!

[Jakemaster]

Here are some random shots of the best plane ever built!

What?  I don't see a DC-3 anywhere...

The spit is NOT the best plane ever built, the DC-3 is.  No contest

[Jakemaster]

If there's something better to listen to than the sound of a merlin engine, then I haven't heard it. After all , it powered the two most important Allied planes in the war.(althought the Russians could make a case for their fighters, I suppose) Without the P-51, the Focke Wulfe's and BF109's would have continued to make mincemeat out of the B-17s and Lancaster Bombers, and without the Spitfire (and Hurricane), Britain would have faced certain German invasion, and the whole course ( and possible outcome) of the war would have been changed.

Alrot, this is a Spitfire (and a beautiful one at that) , it says so in the thread title.  ;)

Without the DC-3, Germany never would have fallen to the allies.  So

[ozzy72]

Omag the reason we always hold wars on your turf is to punish you for charging way tooooooo much for your beer and chocolate!

[Theis]

Omag the reason we always hold wars on your turf is to punish you for charging way tooooooo much for your beer and chocolate!

And Waffles!! remember the waffles!!

[ATI_7500]

It's cockpit was tiny and only the smallest pilots could make the grade.

I'd take it as a psychological advantage. A smaller cockpit makes you more of a "unit" with your aircraft.

And 14Kgs of stick pressure is no disadvantage. You'll get used to it.

Luftwaffe pilots hated the later marks of ME 109's, as it had become too big and heavy to be effective in a fight ( the ME109-G was over 660 pounds heavier than the F series).

And fitted with a stronger engine and better guns.
In dogfights, it all boils down to energy. And to gain energy, you have to have a good engine. The 109G clearly had it.

Yet for some bizarre reason, the Luftwaffe pilots preferred their older fighters to the superior Focke Wulfe 190.  :-/

Imagine you were a german senior pilot with thousands of hours on a 109. Would you jump into the cold water and learn to handle a more modern, yet unknown aircraft if you've got someting beneath you that you can fly with your eyes closed.

So which was the superior plane ?

The 109, because it was for pros.

And those pros scored more kills than any of the RAF's fighter pilots.

Just for comparison:

J.E. Johnston (RAF) - 38 kills
A. Galland (Lw) - 103 kills
(European theatre)

So *if* the RAF had the better aicraft, how come that a whole bunch of Luftwaffe pilots - even on the western front - had about double the kills of the best scoring RAF pilot (41)?

It was the Nazi's first defeat in the war, and it was all downhill from there on in for Adolf.

I wouldn't say "all downhill". Having the german flag on Mt. Elbruz certainly was an achievement - other than defeating exhausted, outnumbered and badly supplied german troops.

[Boca]

"So *if* the RAF had the better aicraft, how come that a whole bunch of Luftwaffe pilots - even on the western front - had about double the kills of the best scoring RAF pilot (41)? "

Simple...the Luftwaffe pilots were LYING  ;D  Part of the reason for their defeat in the Battle Of Britain was that they were reporting falsely large enemy kills, therefore the pilots flying next again day were astonished to see a supposedly destroyed squadron of Spitfires coming up to meet them.  The German pilot's philosophy was very different to the British. Germans were too busy looking for medals for kills made which led to the ridiculous situations of entire Staffels ( squadrons) of 109's doing nothing except guarding their squadron leader till he made another kill. The British were different entirely. They were defending their country, and viewed it as a necessary job, rather than a chance for glory.  The fact that less than 600 Spits and Hurricanes repelled an invasion force of over 3400 German aircraft doesn't make your assessment of the ME 109 as the better aircraft very believable.
        You can play with stats all you like, for me the proof is written in history. On September 15th, the Luftwaffe threw everything they had at RAF fighter command, in a all out attempt to finish them off once and for all. The RAF recorded a 3 to 1 kill ratio and it was Hitler's first major bloody nose of WW2
     And to Jayhawk Jake...  if the planes of the RAF hadn't done their job, Britain would most likely be part of Fascist Germany by the time the Americans decided to join the war, so where would your 'best plane in the world' DC-3's take off from ?  ;)

[ozzy72]

All fighter pilots triple their kills.... naval aviators need their numbers divided by eleven to get to the truth
Whilst Adolf Galland did indeed make an impressive number of kills I feel that many of them were reported by other pilots as their own. The British system whilst not perfect did seem to come out with more accurate figures (although still well over-budget).
The worst were the Soviets who accepted ground straffing runs as well so some Russian pilots were claiming 300 kills and other idiotic things like that