Simviation Forums

I saw on the back of my Computer Pilot mag an ad for Jetline Systems
I've never heard of them... Does anyone have one of their systems?

Cheers,
Joe

I'm looking at them now. So far, this page: http://www.jetlinesystems.com/performance.html seems pretty much 100% spot on. The only thing they need to do is update it so it includes some new hardware like Core i7 2600K, Core i5 2500K, and the Radeon 6xxx series and Nvidia GTX 5xx series.

The systems seem to be built using very high quality parts (although again they need to update them to newer hardware that's been released in the past couple of months). I'll compare the prices with other websites...

edit:

OK I compared jetline systems with a system where all parts of purchased individually from newegg.com. If newegg doesn't have the part I'll use a similar part.

JET LINE SYSTEMS:
Coolermaster HAF
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit
EVGA X58 SLI Chipset
Intel Core i7 930
Corsair H50
6gb tri-channel DDR3-1600 CL7
1536MB Nvidia GeForce GTX 480
Corsair AX850 power supply
integrated audio
1TB WD Black Edition SATA 7200RPM
Single Drive: 22x CD/DVD Dual-Layer Burner w/ LightScribe
TOTAL : $2,626.00

newegg.com
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit $99.99
EVGA 131-GT-E767-TR LGA 1366 Intel X58 SLI 3 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard $209.99
Intel Core i7-950 $294.99
CORSAIR Hydro H70 $102.99
G.SKILL PI Series 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL7T-6GBPI $109.99
EVGA 012-P3-1570-AR GeForce GTX 570 $359.99
CORSAIR Professional Series AX850

WOW!!! Thanks so much for the comparison... especially with newegg. I've been there last year trying to put a system together but I'm years behind in tech and can't make heads or tails of anything. My budget is $2,000 so I'm in luck...

I can def assemble it myself... would you be willing to coach me a little more on boards and cards offline?

I have many questions.

Sure.

I have email, msn, private messages on simv, and this thread... Would you like me to PM you my msn address?

I just printed out the equip you listed and was about to head to newegg and jetline to see what else I could switch or swap...

If your willing we can e-mail and I have yahoo for chat. Can we chat across yahoo and msn.

I guess the first questions to ask are - what exactly are you doing with the PC? FSX? Gaming? What is your budget? Do you want a new screen?

In my opinion, the best sweet spot in terms of budget is around $1500-$2000 because it will give you some of the fastest computer hardware that should run FSX extremely well, while also being very good value. A hugely more expensive computer isn't going to be much of a help.


SCREEN:
A big beautiful screen (>21.5 inch) is an absolute must, running at a resolution of 1920*1080 or 1920*1200 or above. I don't know much about running multiple screens so I cannot help out there.


PROCESSOR:
The best processor at the moment is the Core i7 2600. It is a 3.4ghz Quad Core with hyperthreading. The Non-disclosure agreement has ended so all the reviews have been released (e.g. http://pcper.com/article.php?aid=1057&t ... ert&pid=14 http://www.anandtech.com/show/4083/the- ... 100-tested ) within the past few days, however they are generally not found in many stores. Wait a few days, or a week, and this will change. Anyway, the i7 2600 is based on brand new technology, so it should be very future-proof for well-over a year. It's the third fastest desktop processor in existence (the only faster ones cost twice as much). So anyway, it is excellent value for money, really fast, also has a very low power consumption. I highly recommend overclocking this processor because it's extremely easy and you can get massive gains from doing so - like 4.5ghz completely stable (whoa). If you plan on overclocking, make sure to get the Core i7 2600K variant, rather than the i7 2600. You can view performance per dollar, performance per watt, and a comparison with other processors in the PCPER review I linked.

Core i7 2600K is $317 (this one can overclock)

Core i7 2600 is $294 (this one cannot overclock very far)

Don't need to add extra cooling if overclocking, as the K model now ships with an updated cooler which is more than adequate.


MOTHERBOARD:
Motherboard, it depends on what you want really. I would expect the best to be ASUS ones and Gigabyte ones like the Gigabye GA-P67A-UD3R, GA-P67A-UD3P, ASUS P8P67 series. Make sure to look at the expansion slots and things like USB3.0, and E-SATA if you need those. Make sure the motherboard is socket 1155 for it to be compatible with the Core i7 2600 / 2600K, with the P67 chipset. I would probably get an ASUS motherboard simply because they have beautiful UEFI BIOS which looks nicer and should enable the computer to boot somewhat faster.

Motherboards are usually around $150.


MEMORY:
I rarely see FSX use above 2 gigabytes of memory although it does happen occasionally. IMHO you should get 4 gigabytes of DDR3-1600 with a CAS (aka CL) latency of 6 or 7 which should cost around $90. Alternatively you can get 8 gigabytes of DDR3-1600 with a CAS (aka CL) latency of 7 for $160. Make sure you are buying dual channel memory that runs at a voltage of 1.65 volts or less.


VIDEOCARD:
FSX does not benefit from dual graphics processors, hence it is best to get the fastest single GPU possible with the most video memory and memory bandwidth. The GTX 580 has this position although it is rather expensive @ $530. Could save a large amount of money by going with the slightly slower $350 GTX 570. Those are by far the best cards for FSX. There's also the GTX 480 which is the same sped as the GTX 570, but the 480 should be avoided since it is extremely power hungry, and rather loud. eVGA is a good brand.

For general gaming it MIGHT be a better idea to go with dual slower videocards, but this will perform worse in FSX.

relative performance: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS ... 70/27.html
performance per dollar: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS ... 70/29.html
performance per watt: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS ... 70/28.html
noise: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS ... 70/26.html

HARD DISK:
Solid State Drives are by far the fastest drives on the market which means extremely fast boot times, quick application loading, and less (or no) stutters within MSFS. They are, however, expensive. It might be useful asking people how big their FSX installations are and then deciding for yourself whether you can fit it AND Windows on an SSD (they are usually 60 or 80 gigabytes). A better bet is dual 7200rpm hard drives, one for windows, one for FSX. Bigger usually means faster so get 1 terrabyte ones. Western Digital Black 1tb are extremely good, as are Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB's.

I guess the first questions to ask are - what exactly are you doing with the PC?

I have FS9, FSX, X-P, Sim3, TRS2009 (getting 10) <- That's a train simulator
Do you get the impression I spend most of my time playing games?

FSX?

YES

Gaming?

YES

What is your budget?

$2000 -tax

Do you want a new screen?

Yes but not until the one I have dies. and it's 10+years old and still kicking. I love to brag about it but people these days just don't understand.

Now that I'm done answering your questions, I'm going to read the post you wrote. I sent you an e-mail with an excel attachment, let me know if you can't get it through spam filters and I'll put it up on my website for you to DLd

I'd rather reply on simv, because then everyone can read it. And I can make edits. Hope that's OK. Got your email fine.

No problem at all keeping it here... I agree, so everyone can get something out of it. I'm not selfish.

One question I have about the OC'd i7... will that also speed up the MB, MEM and GPU? If not, will it be sitting idle waiting for everything else? I'm not afraid of OCing, I'm doing that now.

I currently have three 7200rpm WD HDD, all double partitioned. I forgot to look at SSDs. I do want a 1TB though.

I was thinking about 6GB mem... I've never heard of anything using that much... so yeah I think I'll go with 2 or 4GB

I'm going to make another newegg wishlist with the specs you listed and tinker with that.

So my situation... My mother died 2 years ago and I moved in with my dad to keep him company. Living here in the mountains means, no steady work. He helped me pay off some debt, but now I owe him. I'm doing website work from my brother which brings in some money plus my Navy Retirement. I should have my dad paid off in a few months. Then I'm thinking of hitting him up for the 2 grand instead of waiting and saving. I've been waiting for over a year.

Here's an idea. Is it possible to have 1 SSD and 2 HDD?

I currently have my primary drive partitioned at 40GB (for Windows) and the rest for file storage. I have separate partitions for Windows, Applications & Utilities, Application File Storage, Longterm file storage and two for GAMES!!!

So what if I got an SSD to handle windows and HDD for the rest? Also, that means VirtMem would be on SSD.

I wouldn't go with many of the parts you listed in particular the CPU, motherboard, and memory. Don't get me wrong - there's nothing wrong with them - however the Core i7 2600K on a P67 motherboard is simply better.

One question I have about the OC'd i7... will that also speed up the MB, MEM and GPU?

On the Core i7 950 overclocking the CPU will also overclock the motherboard, and memory. The speed of the memory and motherboard can then be brought back down very easily by changing a clock ratio between BCLOCK and the motherboard or memory. So it's not in any way a problem. With the Core i7 2600K, overclocking is much, much, much simpler and does not touch the motherboard or the memory.

If not, will it be sitting idle waiting for everything else?

To a certain, minor, extent. But it's not really a problem though. Any in any case, FSX is CPU limited so going from 3.4ghz to 4.5ghz will give you rather large gains, as will many programs. Plenty of tests have indicated this.

I was thinking about 6GB mem... I've never heard of anything using that much... so yeah I think I'll go with 2 or 4GB

Depends on what processor you get.

If you get the Core i7 950 then get 6 gigabytes of tri-channel memory (3 sticks of memory basically).
If you get the Core i7 2600 then get 4 gigabytes of dual-channel memory (2 sticks of memory basically).

Don't bother with 2gb IMHO. Memory is cheap, anyway.

Here's an idea. Is it possible to have 1 SSD and 2 HDD?

Yes. Most motherboards have six or even eight hard drive (SATA) connectors. The power supply I recommended (AX750) has 12 SATA power cables.

So what if I got an SSD to handle windows and HDD for the rest? Also, that means VirtMem would be on SSD.

That would be good also. SSD's are blazing fast.

I wouldn't go with many of the parts you listed in particular the CPU, motherboard, and memory. Don't get me wrong - there's nothing wrong with them - however the Core i7 2600K on a P67 motherboard is simply better.

Yeah, I was reconsidering that after reading your post.

One question I have about the OC'd i7... will that also speed up the MB, MEM and GPU?

On the Core i7 950 overclocking the CPU will also overclock the motherboard, and memory. The speed of the memory and motherboard can then be brought back down very easily by changing a clock ratio between BCLOCK and the motherboard or memory. So it's not in any way a problem. With the Core i7 2600K, overclocking is much, much, much simpler and does not touch the motherboard or the memory.

Why not leave the MB and MEM sped up... will it burn them out.

...FSX is CPU limited...

Meaning what?

quote]

Here's an idea. Is it possible to have 1 SSD and 2 HDD?

Yes. Most motherboards have six or even eight hard drive (SATA) connectors. The power supply I recommended (AX750) has 12 SATA power cables.

My PS only has 2, OMG! Am I out of date or what!

1. MB: Under the PCI Express 2.0 x16, for one board it states "1x PCIE
2.0 x16 & 2x PCIE 2.0 x8" The other states "3(x16, x16/x8,x8)" Huh?

There's many different physical PCI-E sizes. Videocards need a PCI-E x16 slot. There's also PCI-E x4 slots. Sometimes, while the motherboard may have a physical x16 slot it may actually work at a x8 speed. Or sometimes you're using two physical x16 slots they downgrade their speed to x8. It depends on each individual motherboard. In my opinion, don't worry about it unless you know you're going to be using these expansion slots. Pretty much any motherboard will have one or more PCI-E x16 slot that runs at x16 now-a-days.

Newegg can be confusing in that regard, it's best just to look on the manufacturers website or ask.

How would a dual lan plug be helpful? One for internet and one for home
network?

Yes. Or if you have a router / modem you can be on the home network and internet at the same time with only one ethernet cable running out from your computer.

Will the MB handle the 1.6 vs 1.5v

Yes. Do NOT go over 1.65 volt, EVER, though.

Go with CL6 if it isn't much more expensive than CL7. Shouldn't be too much of a difference in cost. Go with CL6 IMHO.

3. GPU: Comparing the two, there seems to be a bit of a difference in
the Core Clock, Shader Clock, Stream Processors, Eff Mem Clock, Mem size
and Mem interface.
I only know what the Core Clock means. Also, how do I know if the MB can
support those speeds and sizes. Am I too old school?

Any new motherboard that has a PCI-E x16 slot will support any videocard that is PCI-E x16 (this is pretty much anything). PCI-E 2.0, PCI-E 1.1, and PCI-E 2.1 are irrelevant pretty much because everything is backwards and forwards compatible. Some extremely old computers with PCI-E 1.0 or 1.1 slots may have problems running PCI-E 2.0 cards, but that's not relevant to anything built in many years.

Don't worry about core clock speeds, shader clock speeds, stream processor count, effective memory clock, memory size or memory interface. IMHO, just get the GTX 580 or GTX 570.

I remember when I had to match the CPU speeds with the MB speeds with
the MEM speeds. Is that an issue these days?

Not exactly. The CPU speed should be automatically detected as should the motherboard speeds. However, when you load up your PC for the first time, enter system setup, click load optimized defaults, and then you may need to manually set your memory speed and timings manually. It's easy, and especially should be with an ASUS board with UEFI. Watch the vid in the link. Some new P67 boards have that.