Simviation Forums

The following was compiled so those who are seeking answers about VISTA and FSX will have good information in considering their options for hardware upgrades. The information provided in this list is not endorsed by ATI, Nvidia, Microsoft or any other hardware or software manufacturer. What is posted below does not contain secret or proprietary information however what this list should provide is answers to questions many people may not be aware of or who may have a limited understanding of VISTA and FSX.

Some of what I have provided below may change over time however at this time I have confirmed the following through good sources.

1.
Do I need VISTA to run FSX?

A:
No. FSX will run in WindowsXP x32 and WindowsXP x64 however FSX is optimized for VISTA and a new video coding method, embeded and only available in the Windows VISTA operating system.


-------------------------------------

2.
Will FSX have DX10 included?


A:
At this time, no. The current plan is that FSX will ship with DX9 support only. DX10 support will be provided in a FSX patch from Microsoft once final development of DX10 hardware has completed and Vista has been released.

-------------------------------------

3.
Will FSX run on WindowsXP with the DX10 patch?


A:
No. DX10 will not function in WindowsXP AT ALL. The DX10 patch will not install on anything other than VISTA. The only way you can have DX10 support is by upgrading to Windows VISTA and a DX10 video card(s).

------------------------------------


4.
Are the desktop and other areas of Windows VISTA DX10 and do they need a DX10 card to see them?

A:
No. All of Windows VISTA desktop effects are DX9. DX10 will only be seen in video games that support DX10.

-------------------------------------

5.
Do I need a dual processor for VISTA and FSX?

A:
No. However keep in mind that in order to have a full experience both VISTA and FSX a dual processor will be needed and you SHOULD plan for a dual core build. Also quad core processors as they are developed and released will allow further VISTA and FSX performance gains. VISTA and FSX will support hardware upgrades such as quad core processors. It is undefined that WindowsXP will be able to use or take full advantage of any quad core technology. Just like Windows 98 and Millennium, WindowsXP will also be phased out. Microsoft has hinted that phase-out may come faster with WindowsXP than other versions of Windows however nothing has been decided 100% as of now.


------------------------------------


6.
I hear I need a huge amount of memory to run VISTA and FSX. Is this true?

A:
It depends on what you consider a huge amount. I currently use 2gigs of memory for WindowsXP x64-x32 and FS9 so I do not consider 2gigs huge but most people do. For best results, the Windows VISTA operating system will want 512mb of memory dedicated to it alone. FSX will want to see another gig. At minimum one could run with 1gig of memory in VISTA with FSX however I firmly believe that will handicap the sim. I would NOT run with less than 2gigs. Also, VISTA will support more physical memory than WindowsXP so too much memory is no longer an issue.


------------------------------------


7.
What is DX10 and what can I expect from upgrading?

A:
That question requires a HUGE answer if one wants to hear all the technical mumbo-jumbo. I will however refrain from going into details and keep it simple here; In a nutshell DX10 provides a way to significantly increase the amount of information being processed on the same size GPU we see today and therefore opens the door to not only allowing more visuals and much higher frame rates but allow additional features which were not possible in the past due to core limits.

A game must be designed for DX10 and with DX10 LOD (Level Of Detail). You will not increase the depth of visuals in a DX9 game by simply upgrading the hardware to DX10. In order to see impressive visuals the game or application developer must add the details DX10 will display. How impressive DX10 will visually look will be directly related to how much detail the developer places in the game.

At first the LOD you experience with DX10 may not be huge however this will rapidly change over the first year DX10 is on the market.

With or without high LOD, the frame rate you are use to seeing will jump significantly with DX10.

Not only does DX10 provide a significant boost to the graphics sub system, DX10 will also provide a boost to your processor. The GPU will take over tasks up till now the processor was required to run. With DX10 your processor will now have significantly more cycles available for AI and other calculations.

Another level of game play will also be coming of age with DX10. It is called PhysX. PhysX is a method of applying real world physics to the 3D game world. Even if not used and supported at first, PhysX is slated to be incorporated on the new DX10 cards from both ATI and Nvidia. ATI will have the technology embedded in its core. ATI already supports PhysX on their x1600 through x1900xtx cards when used in a 2 and 3 card Crossfire solution and a driver update is applied. Games must have PhysX support in order to take advantage of it. This is something that will also come of age over the next year or so.

-----------------------------------


8.
Do I need DX10?

A:
No. FSX will run on WindowsXP but you will never see the items I mentioned in #7 without it.

EDIT: You may not need it but you will WANT DX10 once you see the difference. You must install Windows VISTA to have DX10

-----------------------------------


9.
I am planning on upgrading and I do not want to wait for DX10. Do I absolutely need SLI or Crossfire for FSX?

A:
No. However if you want to have the best FSX experience you should seriously consider either an SLI or Crossfire system. A decent DX9 SLI or Crossfire rig will probably place you in the same performance and visual

11.
Assuming I have the money and I am ready to buy right now and do not want to wait for the next generation of cards to be released, which one should I get; SLI or Crossfire?

A:
Right now Nvidia would be a better choice in SLI simply because it has had more released development applied to it in driver and hardware support. However Crossfire does have somewhat of an advantage over SLI because Crossfire will run just about ANY game title with dual GPU core support where with SLI the game MUST be designed to run in SLI mode for full support. You can run FS9 with SLI but you WILL NOT have full SLI support or take advantage of the 2nd GPU SLI provides. FSX will have full support for SLI. The buzz is Crossfire may be coming of age in the next generation of ATI cards and chipsets.

--------------------------------------------

12.
Will I be able to upgrade to DX10 if I buy now, even a SLI or Crossfire rig?

A:
Absolutely. But you will not be able to use the DX9 video card(s) you purchased for SLI or Crossfire. That

19.
I have seen the videos and screenshots for FSX. They look really, really good but I am not as impressed as I thought I would be about the overall DX10 visual look.


A:
You should not be impressed because the screenshots and teaser videos that have been released for FSX are made with DX9. A real image or video of DX10 FSX has not as of yet been displayed. Expect to see DX10 samples in the months to come however I do not expect Microsoft will be concentrating on that advertisement because the sim will not ship or have any DX10 support until VISTA and the cards are on the market.



-------------------------------



20.
I have a really small budget right now. I cannot afford much more than 1000 dollars for a rig. What should I do?


A:
I would wait and continue to save. By the time the DX10 cards come out and everything is patched you could save another 1000 or more. If you do not think that will be possible then base your purchases on the following so your FSX sim experience will have the best chance of success:

Dual Core 64bit Processor
2 gigs of memory
Single card solution (motherboard does not need to be SLI or Crossfire)

Remember... the price of todays better dual core processors will significantly drop in price in August (2006) and will more than likely drop significantly again in Q1-Q2 of next year. That means waiting may net you the savings for a DX10 solution.

If you do not wish to wait, your best bet is the 7900GTX 512 or the ATI X1900xtx. As expensive as that sounds, they will work fine in FSX and are excellent for FS9. Another option would be to purchase a bit cheaper video card with the idea of upgrading to DX10 next summer. A 7900GT or a x1800xt would do the job quite nicely.

Ask the experienced folks in the forum for video card opinions. Prices change and there are many very experienced people in the forum, such as Congo and Cameron who can advise you on what is available and what currently has the best bang for the buck.

To upgrade to DX10, additional purchases will be:

Windows VISTA
A DX10 Video Card

At this point in time the different levels (budget to high-end) of DX10 cards which will become available are unknown.



-----------------------------------


21.
Should I buy AMD or Intel? I hear Intel

Why is VISTA such a resource hog? Is MSPaint, Internet Explorer, and Notepad so much better on VISTA that it needs double the memory?

Why is VISTA such a resource hog? Is MSPaint, Internet Explorer, and Notepad so much better on VISTA that it needs double the memory?

Funny you should ask that querstion... I was just typing up another section which worked with your question... see @ 22 above for an answer.


VISTA is a huge and bloated OS.. thats all there is to it.


If you want DX10, you have to use it

WOW long but informative list, thanks for taking the time!

I was waiting to buy Vista for the new improved notepad!

Thanks for taking the time to write your thoughts here Nick, very informative and timely info for all of us.

If you want DX10, you have to use it

This is exactly what I was afraid of.

I thought there was a possibility of it, but I didn't expect the news so soon and somehow I clung hopelessly to a belief that it wouldn't happen for a long time yet.

Ohhhhh, woe is me

Nice job Nick. You covered stuff it took me forever to research and a lot of goodies I could not even find.

BTW I am still jealous.

Microsoft has hinted that phase-out may come faster with WindowsXP than other versions of Windows however nothing has been decided 100% as of now.

Yeah, they will make a new Windows XP update that will make the OS unstable, and constantly tell you to upgrade to VISTA.

Yeah, they will make a new Windows XP update that will make the OS unstable, and constantly tell you to upgrade to VISTA.

That's just being paranoid Cheesegrater, get a grip  

Nice post(s) Nick, covered a lot of Q & A's.  8)
And Congo... LOL
Rob.

[quote]Thanks for taking the time to write your thoughts here Nick, very informative and timely info for all of us.




This is exactly what I was afraid of.

I thought there was a possibility of it, but I didn't expect the news so soon and somehow I clung hopelessly to a belief that it wouldn't happen for a long time yet.

Ohhhhh, woe is me

My concern is not just for the inbuilt spyware in Vista, despite it's touted purpose which is to protect intellectual property, as much as I believe that use has a most legitimate and desirable goal, I fear abuse of this extremely powerful capability.

As soon as MS aquired directX, the writing was on the wall for all gaming to be controlled to some extent by microsoft. Tying DirectX to Vista cements that so firmly that I can't understand why anti-trust legislation doesn't come into conflict, but I'm no lawyer and I'm sure they worked it out properly.

The clincher for me is just this.... my original and longstanding PC useage is aircraft simulation. To be forced into the forthcoming hardware and software upgrade gauntlet without any choices (other than to not participate) is one thing. To be forced into something you really have moral reservations about is quite another, not to mention the fact that 95% of what I will possibly pay for Vista is not in my interests at all, I only want a platform to launch a sim from, it's not a big ask.

I think Microsoft are taking things a step beyond what is reasonable for us to accept, and the thing is, I feel they will succeed and it frightens me. I'm not paranoid, just overwhelmed by a sense of forboding.

I know my resistance will dull with time, I'll probably be lined up at the store buying it all like everyone else when it's released.

I hope this new technology isn't abused, but I know it's too powerful not to be abused.

Bill Gates will use his billions to cure disease it is said, an admirable legacy. I hope that cure doesn't give us a greater sickness and that humanity prevails.

Imagine technology such as this in the hands of Adolph Hitler or even a myriad of lesser contemporaries. This technology potentially brings an undesirable regime into our homes, our workplace and our children's minds. Our offspring will accept this as normal from now on if we embrace it.

Don't believe the hype, your mind is all you have in the end. Don't give it away. Think for yourself so you can see right and wrong and know the difference. Accept change if you must but if it starts to enslave us, that is time to pull the plug on the deal, so long as we are free.

Beware the wedge, the thin end looks so harmless as to be insignificant, but once in place no force will remove it.

Many of us and those with similar interests to us will be the early adapters of Vista, by virtue of the new graphics engine. We hold the torch so to speak. We will lead the changes, the marketing is directed squarely at us. Heck, we even have our own "inside man" right here haven't we?

I wish I was in a position to address Microsoft's

[quote]My concern is not just for the inbuilt spyware in Vista, despite it's touted purpose which is to protect intellectual property, as much as I believe that use has a most legitimate and desirable goal, I fear abuse of this extremely powerful capability.

As soon as MS aquired directX, the writing was on the wall for all gaming to be controlled to some extent by microsoft. Tying DirectX to Vista cements that so firmly that I can't understand why anti-trust legislation doesn't come into conflict, but I'm no lawyer and I'm sure they worked it out properly.

The clincher for me is just this.... my original and longstanding PC useage is aircraft simulation. To be forced into the forthcoming hardware and software upgrade gauntlet without any choices (other than to not participate) is one thing. To be forced into something you really have moral reservations about is quite another, not to mention the fact that 95% of what I will possibly pay for Vista is not in my interests at all, I only want a platform to launch a sim from, it's not a big ask.

I think Microsoft are taking things a step beyond what is reasonable for us to accept, and the thing is, I feel they will succeed and it frightens me. I'm not paranoid, just overwhelmed by a sense of forboding.

I know my resistance will dull with time, I'll probably be lined up at the store buying it all like everyone else when it's released.

I hope this new technology isn't abused, but I know it's too powerful not to be abused.

Bill Gates will use his billions to cure disease it is said, an admirable legacy. I hope that cure doesn't give us a greater sickness and that humanity prevails.

Imagine technology such as this in the hands of Adolph Hitler or even a myriad of lesser contemporaries. This technology potentially brings an undesirable regime into our homes, our workplace and our children's minds. Our offspring will accept this as normal from now on if we embrace it.

Don't believe the hype, your mind is all you have in the end. Don't give it away. Think for yourself so you can see right and wrong and know the difference. Accept change if you must but if it starts to enslave us, that is time to pull the plug on the deal, so long as we are free.

Beware the wedge, the thin end looks so harmless as to be insignificant, but once in place no force will remove it.

Many of us and those with similar interests to us will be the early adapters of Vista, by virtue of the new graphics engine. We hold the torch so to speak. We will lead the changes, the marketing is directed squarely at us. Heck, we even have our own "inside man" right here haven't we?

I wish I was in a position to address Microsoft's

My concern is not just for the inbuilt spyware in Vista, despite it's touted purpose which is to protect intellectual property, as much as I believe that use has a most legitimate and desirable goal, I fear abuse of this extremely powerful capability.

As soon as MS aquired directX, the writing was on the wall for all gaming to be controlled to some extent by microsoft. Tying DirectX to Vista cements that so firmly that I can't understand why anti-trust legislation doesn't come into conflict, but I'm no lawyer and I'm sure they worked it out properly.

The clincher for me is just this.... my original and longstanding PC useage is aircraft simulation. To be forced into the forthcoming hardware and software upgrade gauntlet without any choices (other than to not participate) is one thing. To be forced into something you really have moral reservations about is quite another, not to mention the fact that 95% of what I will possibly pay for Vista is not in my interests at all, I only want a platform to launch a sim from, it's not a big ask.

I think Microsoft are taking things a step beyond what is reasonable for us to accept, and the thing is, I feel they will succeed and it frightens me. I'm not paranoid, just overwhelmed by a sense of forboding.

I know my resistance will dull with time, I'll probably be lined up at the store buying it all like everyone else when it's released.

I hope this new technology isn't abused, but I know it's too powerful not to be abused.

Bill Gates will use his billions to cure disease it is said, an admirable legacy. I hope that cure doesn't give us a greater sickness and that humanity prevails.

Imagine technology such as this in the hands of Adolph Hitler or even a myriad of lesser contemporaries. This technology potentially brings an undesirable regime into our homes, our workplace and our children's minds. Our offspring will accept this as normal from now on if we embrace it.

Don't believe the hype, your mind is all you have in the end. Don't give it away. Think for yourself so you can see right and wrong and know the difference. Accept change if you must but if it starts to enslave us, that is time to pull the plug on the deal, so long as we are free.

Beware the wedge, the thin end looks so harmless as to be insignificant, but once in place no force will remove it.

Many of us and those with similar interests to us will be the early adapters of Vista, by virtue of the new graphics engine. We hold the torch so to speak. We will lead the changes, the marketing is directed squarely at us. Heck, we even have our own "inside man" right here haven't we?

I wish I was in a position to address Microsoft's  board of directors, and plea that common sense prevails over business sense for short term monetary gain. In house monitoring of your PC is just not right, unless you are a criminal or suspect of course.

Vista assumes we are all suspects, and that is the overwhelming truth of the matter.

Software license enforcement? Let's truly hope so, because that is the one thing that will not hurt us.

If anyone finds this post offensive I will promptly remove it or accept the decision of a Mod who removes it, as it is without a doubt off topic, I just think it needs to be said and Vista should be scrutinised for what it is and not considered just another operating system.... for that, it surely is not.

If you see a guy kicking and screaming in the store's checkout line and he is obviously disturbed by inner conflict, come say hi, I won't bite.

If I suddenly drop off the face of the Earth, remember, you saw it here at SimV first!  

I fear that in the future we will only have one OS, one brand of video cards, one brand of motherboards, etc. Microsoft might team up with the government in a new domestic spying program. Microsoft might eventually take over the world.