Building a Computer... - Graphics Cards?

[Dukes]

Well I am building a computer... for my first time ever and I am making a shopping list of things I will be buying that are generally within my budget. I am trying to make the computer for gaming, mainly for flight simulators. Anyhow, I have chosen mostly everything as best I can tell, but I know nothing about Graphics Cards. What would be a good semi-high end graphics card to buy? Preferable nVidia but if I have to something else will do. Also I could use some opinions on the parts I have chosen, list below.

Thanks,
Dukes

Current List:
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD3200KS 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM      $124.99       http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822136003

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ Toledo 2000MHz HT 2 x 1MB L2 Cache Socket 939 Dual Core Processor - Retail      $460.00  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103546

ASUS A8N32-SLI Deluxe Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce SPP 100 ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail      $196.99       http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813131568

eVGA 256-P2-N565-AX Geforce 7900GT 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail       $339.00       http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814130282

Hiper Modular Type-R 580W Power Supply - SLI Ready - Blue      $99.00       http://www.frozencpu.com/psu-164.html?id=P6iGn5Go

ZALMAN CNPS9500 LED 92mm 2 Ball Blue LED Light Cooling Fan with Heatsink - Retail      $63.99       http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835118223

Thermaltake Armor Series VA8000BWS Black Computer Case With Side Panel Window - Retail      $149.99       http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811133154

Creative SOUND BLASTER X-Fi Platinum 7.1 Channels 24-bit 96KHz PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail      $185.00       http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6829102190

CORSAIR XMS 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM Dual Channel Kit System Memory - Retail      $189.00       http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820145575

Total:      $1,807.96

--------------------------------------------------------------

Second List:
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD3200KS 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM      $124.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822136003

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ Toledo 2000MHz HT 2 x 1MB L2 Cache Socket 939 Dual Core Processor - Retail      $460.00       http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6819103546

ASUS A8N32-SLI Deluxe Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce SPP 100 ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail      $196.99       http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813131568

eVGA 256-P2-N565-AX Geforce 7900GT 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail       $339.00       http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814130282

Thermaltake Silent Pure Power W0049RUC ATX12V/ EPS12V 680W Power Supply 100 - 240V CB,CE, FCC, UL, CUL, TUV      $169.00       http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817153021

ZALMAN CNPS9500 LED 92mm 2 Ball Blue LED Light Cooling Fan with Heatsink - Retail      $63.99       http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835118223

Thermaltake Armor VA8000SWA/BWS Silver/Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower Computer Case - Retail      $179.00/$149.99       http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811133155

Creative SOUND BLASTER X-Fi Platinum 7.1 Channels 24-bit 96KHz PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail      $185.00       http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6829102190

CORSAIR XMS 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM Dual Channel Kit System Memory - Retail      $189.00       http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820145575

Total:      $1,906.97

--------------------------------------------------------------

Original List:
[size=10]Intel Pentium D 950 Presler 800MHz FSB 2 x 2MB L2 Cache LGA 775 Dual Core Processor - Retail - $348.99
- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6819116240

Intel BOXD945PVSLKR Socket T (LGA 775) Intel 945P ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail - $154.99
- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813121287

KINGSTON/SAMSUNG 1GB DDR2 533MHZ PC2-4200 CL3 NON-ECC 240 PIN DIMM (Intel Certified) - $99.00 - x4 = $396.00
- http://www.memorysuppliers.com/ki1gbdd53pcc1.html

Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 300GB 3.5" IDE Ultra ATA100 Hard Drive - OEM - $134.99
- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822148099

ZALMAN CNPS9500 AT 2 Ball CPU Cooling Fan/Heatsink - Retail - $62.99
- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835118003

HP 16X DVD

[ctjoyce]

Hey, and welcome!

Now I dont mean to offend, but how much resurch did you put into this list of parts, as most of them are low quality.

What you need is more along the lines of

AMD 3700+ (4400+ if you want dual core)
ASUS A8N-32 SLi Motherboard
1GB OCZ or Corsair XMS PC 4000 or 3200 (depends on if you are overclocking. Get PC4000 for overclocking. Also look at 3-3-3-8 RAM timings for PC4000 and 2-2-2-5 for PC3200)
eVGA 7900GT PCI-E video card
Western Digital SATA3 Hard Drive
DVD burner
500+Watt PSU (I suggest the Hiper Type R or any from ThermalTake, OCZ, and Aspire).
Zalman CNPS 7000CU or 9500 (again depends on your overclocking. 7000 for light to mid range, 9500 for the really heavy stuff).
Zalman VFN700CU if you plan to heavily O/C your card.
ThermalTake Soprano Case

Thats more along the lines of what you should be buying. Just at a slight glance, I saw a low quality DVD burner, Motherboard, RAM, and an overpriced PSU. All of the suggestions I made can be found at www.newegg.com

Now to answer your question as to which GPU. The nVidia 7900GT, 7800GT, or the ATi Radeon X1800XT, X1900XT

Oh ya, and before I forget, check out this Its a video I made, showing you how to set up a rig.

Cheers
Cameron

[wealthysoup]

you'd be better off buying a sata hard drive rather than an ide one the only cost a few

[Mees]

[quote]you'd be better off buying a sata hard drive rather than an ide one the only cost a few

[Dukes]

Hey, and welcome!

Now I dont mean to offend, but how much resurch did you put into this list of parts, as most of them are low quality.

What you need is more along the lines of

AMD 3700+ (4400+ if you want dual core)
ASUS A8N-32 SLi Motherboard
1GB OCZ or Corsair XMS PC 4000 or 3200 (depends on if you are overclocking. Get PC4000 for overclocking. Also look at 3-3-3-8 RAM timings for PC4000 and 2-2-2-5 for PC3200)
eVGA 7900GT PCI-E video card
Western Digital SATA3 Hard Drive
DVD burner
500+Watt PSU (I suggest the Hiper Type R or any from ThermalTake, OCZ, and Aspire).
Zalman CNPS 7000CU or 9500 (again depends on your overclocking. 7000 for light to mid range, 9500 for the really heavy stuff).
Zalman VFN700CU if you plan to heavily O/C your card.
ThermalTake Soprano Case

Thats more along the lines of what you should be buying. Just at a slight glance, I saw a low quality DVD burner, Motherboard, RAM, and an overpriced PSU. All of the suggestions I made can be found at www.newegg.com

Now to answer your question as to which GPU. The nVidia 7900GT, 7800GT, or the ATi Radeon X1800XT, X1900XT

Oh ya, and before I forget, check out this Its a video I made, showing you how to set up a rig.

Cheers
Cameron

I am new to this junk... so my research was little. I WAS researching graphics cards on CNet but I couldn't figure it out so I came to a place where I knew people might know, and here you are! Anyhow... no offense taken I assure you. I picked a processor and then found compatable stuff to fit my budget really... I can't really afford the best of the best... also I picked brands I had at least heard of... I have never built a computer before so any help I can get is cool ^^

Firstly... Hard Drives... I am thinking the one on the right is better but, alas, I have no idea.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductCompare.asp?CompareItemList=N82E16822136003%2CN82E16822136017&SubCategory=14

The Processor... 4400+ says it is 2.2GHz... I always thought more of those was better? If not... I have been badly misled. :|
Processor: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6819103546

Motherboard.. Ok so after realizing there are more than three reviews for the Motherboard, it looks like a keeper!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813131568

" 1GB OCZ or Corsair XMS PC 4000 or 3200 (depends on if you are overclocking. Get PC4000 for overclocking. Also look at 3-3-3-8 RAM timings for PC4000 and 2-2-2-5 for PC3200)"
Uh... what is this stuff? Ok I see it is RAM... can you go into more detail about what you said cause it's all Greek to me...

EVGA Card thing... One of these? Would you reccomend a particular one besides the special edition one?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi ... ctory=1402


PSU... Means Power Supply Unit? This one okay?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817153021

Zalman Fan thing...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835118223

Can't find any Zalman products with VFN in their name.

The Case... What about this case?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811133155
The Soprano I saw (Granted I didn't go through every single one) was a smaller tower than the one I had chosen, this one seems to be big enough for anything I could possibly need to put in it and that is one of my major goals on this thing... coming from adding cards (Friends told me good cards back 5 years ago, but alas I have moved) to an HP Pavilion Mini-Tower, I have decided I need space or I will go nuts.

DVD Drives... I need two... Could you help me pick out some good ones? All I really know I need is DVD

[Dukes]

+1


you might want 1.5 to 2 Gigs of RAM, if you wan't to go play FSX on Vista in the future

On that list I had 4 Gigs of Ram...

[NicksFXHouse]

On that list I had 4 Gigs of Ram...

You do not need 4 gigs of RAM... it is a waste. 2 gigs is fine.

WindowsXP x32 does not recognize 4 gigs of ram without a hack and even then the OS still will ignore a certain % of it... Vista will recognize it but even so, FSX and other games will only allocate a certain percentage of it.

FS9 allocates and controls a max of 768MB of RAM no matter how much you have in your system. If you have more RAM it swaps with the PM instead of the page file which is where better performance comes from with having 1 to 1.5GB of memory. FSX is an unknown at this point but I can say with all certainty 4GB of memory would be a waste on anything other than a network server.


The trick with memory is to buy low-latency, high FSB memory. You want a set of 1GB sticks (2GB total) that are rated for no higher than CAS 2.5-3-3-8 and no lower than 250FSB at those timing specs.


As for the processor,

[Dukes]

You do not need 4 gigs of RAM... it is a waste. 2 gigs is fine.

WindowsXP x32 does not recognize 4 gigs of ram without a hack and even then the OS still will ignore a certain % of it... Vista will recognize it but even so, FSX and other games will only allocate a certain percentage of it.

FS9 allocates and controls a max of 768MB of RAM no matter how much you have in your system. If you have more RAM it swaps with the PM instead of the page file which is where better performance comes from with having 1 to 1.5GB of memory. FSX is an unknown at this point but I can say with all certainty 4GB of memory would be a waste on anything other than a network server.


The trick with memory is to buy low-latency, high FSB memory. You want a set of 1GB sticks (2GB total) that are rated for no higher than CAS 2.5-3-3-8 and no lower than 250FSB at those timing specs.


As for the processor,  if you have the money... go for the FX60 (dual FX55). If not, and you are not using games that can take advantage of a dual core, I would not waste the money on a dual core since they will come down in price by the end of the year. The single core san diego 3700+ has the best performance/to cost ratio and can be overclocked easily by 20-25%

Put the money into the motherboard, memory and video card.. the processor can come later.

Questions.

1. Can you help me find memory that fits that criteria compatable with the specified motherboard in the new list?
Here is the memory I found when searching, I got this far and didn't know what FSB is... x.X
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi ... tegory=147

2. I plan to make use of the Dual Core but I plan to also buy the processor last... unless there is a reason not to, in which case the price will be down probably.

3. Can you explain to me what overclocking is, and why it would be something I would like to do?

[ctjoyce]

Questions.

1. Can you help me find memory that fits that criteria compatable with the specified motherboard in the new list?
Here is the memory I found when searching, I got this far and didn't know what FSB is... x.X
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi ... tegory=147

This looks to be your best bet for PC3500

2. I plan to make use of the Dual Core but I plan to also buy the processor last... unless there is a reason not to, in which case the price will be down probably.[/url]

Personally with todays apps, I find no need for dual core, however in the future we will see dual core's becoming the standird. If I were you I would buy a 3700+ now, and a 4400+ or even a 5200+ when they come out.

3. Can you explain to me what overclocking is, and why it would be something I would like to do?

Overclocking is the science of pushing the speed (clock frequincy) of your CPU, and GPU to a higher level than stock, to achieve the fastest speed possable. Its a level of geek that many achieve, but not all master it. You must comprehend not only the clock speeds, but VCore, heat transfer, half life. Its very difficult to master.

Also to answer some previous questions,

1st: That PSU is also very overpriced for what it does. take a look at the Hiper Type R They are in the top 3 PSUs on the market, and  at $100 you cant beat them.

2nd: The Amur is a nice case, but for $190 why not just buy a Lian Li V1000? I have the Soprano personally, and the only differences with the Tsunami are removable drive bays, and an aluminum front panel insted of a plastic one. It can hold 5 HDDs, 4 CD Drives, 2 Floppys, the motherboard you picked,  2+ Video cards, full watercooling, and still have ample room for 4 UV cathodes. Its quite the case.

Cheers
Cameron

[Dukes]

This looks to be your best bet for PC3500


Personally with todays apps, I find no need for dual core, however in the future we will see dual core's becoming the standird. If I were you I would buy a 3700+ now, and a 4400+ or even a 5200+ when they come out.



Overclocking is the science of pushing the speed (clock frequincy) of your CPU, and GPU to a higher level than stock, to achieve the fastest speed possable. Its a level of geek that many achieve, but not all master it. You must comprehend not only the clock speeds, but VCore, heat transfer, half life. Its very difficult to master.

Also to answer some previous questions,

1st: That PSU is also very overpriced for what it does. take a look at the Hiper Type R They are in the top 3 PSUs on the market, and  at $100 you cant beat them.

2nd: The Amur is a nice case, but for $190 why not just buy a Lian Li V1000? I have the Soprano personally, and the only differences with the Tsunami are removable drive bays, and an aluminum front panel insted of a plastic one. It can hold 5 HDDs, 4 CD Drives, 2 Floppys, the motherboard you picked,  2+ Video cards, full watercooling, and still have ample room for 4 UV cathodes. Its quite the case.

Cheers
Cameron

You are a very knowledgable person... I am lucky to have stumbled onto you, or have had you come walking, however you prefer it.

Sounds good to me. I will add that to the list.

I know the dual core is not standard right now, but I wanna be able to play anything that might require it, so I plan to get it, also it means I should be okay with the same processor for a few years, ne?

Overclocking... sounds like a good way to mess up the computer if you don't know what you're doing.

Hiper Type R.... nice, do they make any over 600W?

The Case...
You were talking about this one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811112051
I don't see any benefits to it over the other one, it's smaller too. Am I missing something obvious to someone who knows this stuff?

Would you mind if I AIMed you about this? I see you have your AIM name available but I don't like to randomly impose myself.

[ctjoyce]

Well the Hiper Type R has a range of 580W to 640W. It adapts to how much power your system actually needs. A rig like that will actually only need about 500W of power.

For the Dual core processer, take a look at the AMD 4400+ Quite a nice little package.

And the case. Well the Lian Li may look smaller, however if you notice, your HDDs, and PSU are mounted under the motherboard. Also everything is inverted, so that your PSU, and CPU are at the lowest point of the case, in the coolest air. But the question is, why do you need so much space? If you plan to run a FTP server out of this, I can understand the want for a Full ATX, but really you dont need much more than mid. All cases are designed to have enough room in them for everything you could ever need.

Cheers
Cameron

[NicksFXHouse]

[quote]

This looks to be your best bet for PC3500


Personally with todays apps, I find no need for dual core, however in the future we will see dual core's becoming the standird. If I were you I would buy a 3700+ now, and a 4400+ or even a 5200+ when they come out.



Overclocking is the science of pushing the speed (clock frequincy) of your CPU, and GPU to a higher level than stock, to achieve the fastest speed possable. Its a level of geek that many achieve, but not all master it. You must comprehend not only the clock speeds, but VCore, heat transfer, half life. Its very difficult to master.

Also to answer some previous questions,

1st: That PSU is also very overpriced for what it does. take a look at the Hiper Type R They are in the top 3 PSUs on the market, and

[ctjoyce]

Have you read any of the test results on the hiper. The most outstanding one I saw was a FX60 w/ 2 7900GTs in SLi, 2 Rapters, and a 20% overclock on the FX 60. Unless your putting this into a P4 EE envirement I think that it will more than do the job.

Cheers
Cameron

[wealthysoup]

Overclocking... sounds like a good way to mess up the computer if you don't know what you're doing.

If you dont know what your doing when overclocking you have a choice of fried duck and cpu or the roast chicken and fried cpu

[Dukes]

Well the Hiper Type R has a range of 580W to 640W. It adapts to how much power your system actually needs. A rig like that will actually only need about 500W of power.

For the Dual core processer, take a look at the AMD 4400+ Quite a nice little package.

And the case. Well the Lian Li may look smaller, however if you notice, your HDDs, and PSU are mounted under the motherboard. Also everything is inverted, so that your PSU, and CPU are at the lowest point of the case, in the coolest air. But the question is, why do you need so much space? If you plan to run a FTP server out of this, I can understand the want for a Full ATX, but really you dont need much more than mid. All cases are designed to have enough room in them for everything you could ever need.

Cheers
Cameron

Question being room enough to also go into them easily... I will think about the inverted case, since it has that lower center of gravity you mentioned, but if I get the black Thermaltake one it will be 50$ less... I will go with the power supply you mentioned though for sure