Where do I begin upgrading?

[svenpurple7]

Hi all,
I built my current system about 1 1/2 years ago and it runs rather nicely (so why am I bitching? I have to complain about something).  :P  The only thing I care about is Flight Sim.  The way I look at it is if this machine can run FS9 fine, then all other apps and tasks that I use will run fine as well.
Here's my problem.  I love AI.  I love tons of AI.  I keep my FPS locked at 25, and for the most part it stays at 25 FPS.  However, when I get to airports with much AI, my FPS drops to (IMO) unacceptable levels.  Perhaps it's time for an upgrade in my hardware?  I wouldn't mind if I have to build up to one of those "super sweet systems" like asda_price, gixer or the_autopilot has.  The resources are there.  What I would like to do is slowly upgrade piece by piece until I get to a point where I am happy with the performance.
So please tell me where to begin.  I would also like to know things like how much better is a PCI-express card over AGP?  Is there a possiblity that M$ will release a version of FS that takes advantage of SLI setups or a 64-bit CPU?  And so on, and so forth.  ???  I am not asking for much, am I?  ::)
With that said, here are my current specs:

• AMD Athlon XP 2500 "Barton" 333FSB CPU (OCd to about 2.2 GHz)
• ASUS A7N8X Deluxe mobo
• 2 sticks of 512MB Geil DDR Ram PC-3200 + 1 stick of 512MB OCZ DDR Ram PC-3500 totaling 1.5GB RAM
• ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB (not overclocked.  How much more performace can I squeeze out of this card by overclocking?)
• ANTEC SOHO tower case with 400 watt power supply
• Windows XP pro

Did I forget anything? Do I even need to upgrade?

Thanks in advance for all your help and advice.

[the_autopilot]

First off, 64-bit support for fs9 is not an option. There isn't even a 64-bit Operating system (well, there are, but they don't support fs9). There is a 64-bit versian of windows, but even then, fs9 offer no performence benefits. FS9 (must be programmed to use 64-bit.

Now for SLI, since all you care about is FS-

-SLI offers a performence decrease WHEN COMPARED TO THE LATEST ATI CARDS. Given that you have a 9800 pro, a SLI setup of two 6800 GT's would offer a tremendous boost, but really, why spend more money then you have to (2 6800 gt and a SLI mobo is more twice the cost of a x800 xt)

-OK, here's what you want to get.
An ATI x800 xt. This vid card performs better than even a 6800 ultra SLI setup in FS9.

You currently have AGP, so stick with that. PCI-express offers NO performence increase. SO unless you want a new mobo (see below), don't bother with PCI-e.

Now, as for you mobo, you have a socket A mobo (judging from your CPU). That limits your selection of CPU's. The fastest AMD CPU for sock A is the AthlonXP 3200+ which is 2.2 ghz. You already have that done with overclocking.

Now your choice from here is:
-Stick with what you have. This choice will  bottleneck your CPU and the vid card.
-get a new mobo and a new CPU.

I'd go for the latter. If you agree, then I suggest a Athlon64 4000 on socket 939 and a nvidia nforce 4 ultra mobo. This is 64-bit, and its the 2nd best CPU on the market. Now if you want overclock, You can get the A64 fx-55, the best CPU out there. Its fully OC'able (no locks on multiplier or fsb)
Your memory seems fine (DDR400) so don't worry about that unless you really want lower memory timings which is not really important unless you want to overclock.



And of course, if you want my computer, specs are below, highly recommended if you have the funds.

[Gixer]

6800U rule  ;D



I would say with your existing spec you could get your sim running practicarly maxxed out anyhow.  Outta interest what are you actually running your FSB at? I guess its higher than the 333 to achieve the 2.2Ghz speed on your CPU.

If you got the cash go for the best of what ever you can afford.  I couldn't justify the proce difference between the A64 3500 upto to 4000 it is just way to pricey for me at the moment.

Might be worth when setting your PC up to think about contacting these guys http://www.fs-gs.com  I reckon if you went to them with your existing setup you would get dam good results.  My brother has an AMD XP3000 cpu (Same speed as yours) with a 9800pro and a K7n2 Delta mobo.  I set his PC up and he runs it at 1280x1024 (tft monitor poor res lol) 4xAA, 8xAF and everything maxxed and it runs great!  

It still looks better on my PC though, but thats down to graphics card improvements and I use a decent CRT at 1600x1200.

[svenpurple7]

Thanks for the reply autopilot.  Interesting info.
So, let me see if I got this correct.  Before I start upgrading components, I have to make up my mind on what kind of video I want, AGP or SLI because mobo's support one or the other not both, correct?

If I decide to go AGP, I can get an ATI x800 xt which will definately out-perform my current 9800 pro and it'll fit in my current mobo (and upgrade mobo and CPU later if I want).  If I go with SLI, I should get the new mobo and CPU now in order to take advantage of the SLI setup, correct?

Right now I am leaning towards your recommendations.  When I get a new CPU, I think I'll get the fx-55.  Should I decide to stay with the AGP video, which mobo would you recommend?

Thanks for all your help on this and sorry about all the "rookie" questions.

[svenpurple7]

Hey Gixer,
my cpu speed is actually at about 2.17 GHz and the FSB is around 400.

Thanks for reminding me of the folks at fs-gs.com.  I thought about going to them about a month ago.  I can't remember why I didn't.

I thought about upgrading hardware components because I might be able to "write it off" as a business expense (shhhh, don't tell anyone) lol.  I need another computer anyway and I figured I should go nuts with the hardware.  Perhaps I should try fs-gs.com and upgrade components at the same time.  Any thoughts?

[Gixer]

With regards to setting a system up for gaming the information I got from FS-GS was superb.  A lot was explained to me that I didn't know and now any system I build I can use what I have learnt to set up the system straight away.

With a really high end system its likely it will run stuff well anyway, but I have always been one to try and optimise stuff.  I did do some bench tests etc after the FS-GS service and it does make the computer run more efficiently.

With regards to mobos, I am gonna try an Asus one next.  MSI boards have always been good to me though and it was the only 939 one out at the time I purchased so I had little choice.  SLI is the future but I dont believe it will really take off until 2006 so I am not to worried about that.  PCI-Express, well you can get it but like you said you can get an AGP g/card now and fit it into your existing setup then put it into your new setup when you get the bits.  AGP will be phased out now though, it will all go PCI-Express by maybe next year.

[asda_price]

svenpurple7,

I would recommend for you to get a new PC. If you are not satisfied, then you should get an Alienware or a VoodooPC. Both are great and provide superb performance; they both have their own version of
FS-GS installed and the latter also has liquid cooling. The former only has liquid cooling on their ALX systems (which I own).

But don't forget that buying a new PC depends on your budget. Your processor and video card are letting your system down, but your 1.5 GB RAM is perfect.

I think that for your video card, the nVidia GeForce 6800 Ultra is superb. If you're willing to go a tinsy bit further then you can get an ATi Radeon X850 XT PE, which thrashes everything else.

As for your CPU, and as you like AMDs, then I recommend the AMD Athlon 64 3500+, which is brilliant at gaming; but, as it has been known for years, their video editing is not very good. However, I doubt that you will be doing any video editing.

As for PCI-Express, I think that there is no doubt that you should get it. This type of bus will become the norm in a year's time or so and it does improve the performance in some games. I do not know if it improves performance in FS9, but I fully recommend tha you get it. Trust me!

AGP is now slowly being overpowered by PCI-Express. You must get it if you want to buy decent video cards in the future.

Cheers,

Rob

[svenpurple7]

Thanks for all the info so far guys.  I knew I could count on you.  
Rob, I want to stay away from buying a PC because I want to build it myself.  I am tired of not knowing at least the basics.  That's the reason why I am seriously considering consulting with fs-gs.com first and then I will have some knowledge when puting the new stuff together.
Question:  How OC'able is the Athlon 64 3500+?  autopilot already said that the fx-55 is fully OC'able, but the price difference between the two is ridiculous.  They're both socket 939 right?  So if I got the 3500+, I could later on upgrade to the fx-55, correct?

Also, what I am not clear on is would I be able to use a PCI-express card in my current system until I got the new mobo and CPU?  If so, would the x850 xt or the 6800 ultra PCI-e card out-perform my 9800 pro AGP?

Thanks again for all the help guys.  For a thick headed moron such as myself, this stuff is priceless ,
Ben.

[asda_price]

No, you will not be able to use a PCI-Express card in your current PC because your current mobo only supports AGP. And yes, the Athlon 64 3500+ is fully overclockable, and you'll be able to upgrade to an FX-55 if your mobo is 939-pin and the 3500+you buy is also 939-pin.

The new components (CPU and PCI-Express video card) will easily outperform your current specs. Easily

The performance boost you will get will be unbelievable. And, since you want to build the system yourself, then I fully recommend FS-GS.

These will all amazingly give your FS9 a jumpstart.

Cheers,

Rob

[Gixer]

Yes the 3500 is overclockable, but its multiplyer is locked so you can only overclock by adjusting the FSB.  I have had my CPU running at 2.6Ghz on air and it seemed stable.

My only problem is my ram, I had to run it outta synch to achieve the 2.6Ghz so it benched poorly.  I need to get some higher FSB ram (500FSB) to guarantee a stable overclock running in synch, and to keep tight ram timings.

The reason I went Socket 939 (It was only just released as I ordered so was a bit of a gamble) was so that when the FX55 comes down a bit in price I can upgrade to it.

[svenpurple7]

It appears to me that PCI-e is the way to go with video which means that I will have to get a new CPU and mobo just to see the results of the new video card.

I think I might go with the A64 3500+ for two reasons despite the locked multipliers.  First, one of my RAM sticks is already a PC3500 (not 500 MHz, but it will allow me to OC a bit and keep all my speeds somewhat in synch).  Second, the cheaper 3500+ will justify me dumping serious money on the x850 xt card.  At the current prices of the fx-55, I might as well just buy an airplane and to hell with flight sim.  

I am already using a rather decent air cooler that will fit in the new CPU (according to specs), so no problems there.

I think I will make my final decision after I consult with fs-gs and see if those guys really live up to all the hype.  I am sure they do  ;)  Opinions?  If anyone else can think of anything I may have missed, I am all ears.

Oh.  Almost forgot.  Will I need a new case/power supply or will my current one do?

Ben.

[asda_price]

I think that your case is fine. And as for your PSU, it's up to you if you think it needs upgrading. If you're going to install some powerful components then I would recommend at least a 500W PSU.

Cheers,

Rob

[svenpurple7]

I think that your case is fine. And as for your PSU, it's up to you if you think it needs upgrading. If you're going to install some powerful components then I would recommend at least a 500W PSU.

Nobody said this would be cheap.

[the_autopilot]

I think that your case is fine. And as for your PSU, it's up to you if you think it needs upgrading. If you're going to install some powerful components then I would recommend at least a 500W PSU.

Cheers,

Rob

And you get a new PSU, make sure it is the new ATX2 standard. This way you are futureproofed. BTW SLI recommends ATX2 power supplies.

Make sure you also buy a 939 mobo. This way you are set for future upgrades.

[svenpurple7]

Sweet!
I can't wait until I start ordering these parts and puting them together.  I need to time it just right so I can get them delivered to me right when I have time to do this.  I would go nuts if the parts arrived and I didn't have time to assemble it.

I think I am going to go with the ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe mobo.  My current ASUS mobo has been nothing but good to me.

BTW,  why is an ATX2 power supply recommended?  :P

Ben.