64 bit?

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64 bit?

Postby congo » Tue Oct 26, 2004 5:24 am

I just did this benchmark and I'm seriously wondering if the spec 2 notches above my machine is accurate.

The 64 bit socket 754 benchmark for the MSI board with a 64 bit XP3200+ CPU was producing only a marginal increase over what I have now, which is a overclocked 2800+ CPU (32bit) on an nForce2 chipset.

Anyone have any thoughts on this, as I was considering an upgrade, but looking at this, I don't think it's worth it.

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Re: 64 bit?

Postby 4_Series_Scania » Tue Oct 26, 2004 5:32 am

I'd go with the upgrade congo, assuming your going to continue the overclocking, then I'd have thought you'd get a considerable improvement over the O/C'd 2800!

"Real world" useage, i.e. FS9 IL/2 FB etc I'd doubt if you'd notice much improvement.
In Tasks such as video editing and mpeg encoding,however, you will reap a considerable benefit.

If its performance from 3D apps (games!) your looking for, then I'd be sticking with the O/C'd 2800 and go for a 6800 series graphics card - 6800's are cpu limited by cpu's under 3.0ghz (or the relative AMD speed rating) your 2800 O/C'd would be at this level I'd guess.....
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Re: 64 bit?

Postby Gixer » Tue Oct 26, 2004 5:41 am

Get a socket 939 mobo like meeeeee  ;D

More future proof.  The AMD3500 is reasonably priced at the moment and if you get fast ram easily clocks to 2500MHz, well mine does  ;D

Also in a years time the FX53 will have reduced a lot in price and you can just whack one of those in there.  

Remeber I had exactly the same setup as you have now before I got this setup (I had XP2800 on an nForce2 chiopset with 1gig ram)  This new system is way better though IMO.  Much faster than the old one  ;D

I dunno exactly what that bench test is showing there though? I know in 3Dmark benches I scored way higher on my new setup.
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Re: 64 bit?

Postby congo » Tue Oct 26, 2004 12:31 pm

I don't think that result for the MSI 64bit mainboard, 2 slots above my result in the chart above, can be right. That system should be pushing close to 6000mb/s memory bandwidth, or at least 5000 mb/s.

The benchmark is PC memory bus bandwidth, in other words, throughput capacity I guess, which is basically potential overall processing power.

From what I've read, it doesn't look like the socket 939 has much, if any bandwidth advantages over the socket 754 platform on current chipsets.

The cheapest 6800's are over $500 here, I'll have to wait a while for that to come down.....

A 64bit socket 939 mainboard and CPU (3500+) will set me back $788 while the socket 754 equivalent is $587, a serious enough price difference. And then I'd need new RAM as well, another $360

I think Paul got it right though, and Gixer's 3Dmark results would tend to confirm that....... That a video upgrade to a nv6800 would give me the best upgrade option at the moment, rather than a very expensive platform change.

I'm still proud of my little 2800+ Thorton core CPU.

I think the upgrade is gonna be on hold a while yet.

Thanks for your replies.

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Re: 64 bit?

Postby 4_Series_Scania » Tue Oct 26, 2004 3:17 pm

Looking again at those memory benchmarks, are we seeing a figure that is otherwise displayed "multiplied" as the p4's fsb rate is? i.e. 200fsb x4 (Intels Quad Pipe) = 800fsb or am I just barking up the wrong tree as usual... either way, those benchies look wrong to my non expert eye!  ::)

The cheapest 6800's are over $500 here, I'll have to wait a while for that to come down.....


Hells Bells! $500? is that for the 6800LE ? (which can be had for
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Re: 64 bit?

Postby Gixer » Tue Oct 26, 2004 3:57 pm

Just got that Everest thingy for a laugh.  I like it coz it says my PC kicks ass!!!  ;D

Image

Image

Image

Sweeet, gonna get that Sandra thing and have a go see what that comes up with  ;D
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Re: 64 bit?

Postby Gixer » Tue Oct 26, 2004 4:37 pm

I couldnt get it to show the graph you did for some reason
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Re: 64 bit?

Postby congo » Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:14 pm

There is a bit of info coming out here, so I'll try to clarify it.

The Everest memory bandwidth benchmark is done in two parts seperately, read and write. My pic is the READ benchmark. My write was 1107 marks! Gixer ran both read and write, and you see by his results that there is a massive difference between my PC's memory bandwidth and his.

The CPU DOES HAVE AN EFFECT on the memory bandwidth benchmarks, as it is a measure of throughput, the CPU must process the data being transferred on the FSB. Any CPU variation would surely have an impact on the result. This could be verified by changing the multiplier on an AMD CPU and retesting. As my CPU multiplier is locked, I cannot verify this myself.
If I am full of it on this point, please set me straight.

Paul, the only mark I can verify is my own, as it is a test of actual THROUGHPUT on the FSB, as is, as set up. Any slight configuration change, such as RAM latency timings, will have an effect on the bandwidth. The test reads pure bandwidth and measures the amount of data that can be moved along the FSB over a time period.

The test doesn't particularly care how that data is moved, or the architechture used in doing it, and so it represents a fair comparison between different architectures / PC's.
(DDR, multiple pipes etc., do not matter, it's the end result that is measured here!)

The other systems listed are test results that Everest has listed for other PC configurations, and I would assume from the marks, (I have been studying these benchmarks through time and several updates to this type of software), that the systems tested are set up very well indeed, as I have a challenge matching their scores at standard clock settings.

I guess the reason for my post has been clarified, well, almost, as Gixer has the Socket 939 based 64bit platform, and the platform I wanted to see clarification on is the Socket 754 based system. From what I've read, there isn't a lot of difference between those two in actual performance.

From the above info, I can only assume that the 64bit MSI socket 754 mark in Everest is indeed in error. If there is anyone who has a socket 754 64bit machine, maybe they could run the test and post their results here.

Gixer, in the SiSoftSandra tests, you need to click the double blue arrow REFRESH button at the bottom to activate the test, you will then get your results and be able to compare them to the listed results.

Gixer's PR rating of his 64bit XP3500+ CPU is interesting, although perhaps he should run the CPU arithmetic test to consolidate the reading.

To me, this indicates a nasty trend for AMD CPU naming, in other words, they are giving indications of a higher P4 equivalency than they are actually capable of. The reverse has been true until recently, as AMD were actually under-rating them in my opinion.

I built a system this week using a new Thorton cored XP2600+ with 512mb L2 cache on chip. The new 2600+ benched noticeably lower than the older XP2600+ CPU's!
Last edited by congo on Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 64 bit?

Postby Gixer » Wed Oct 27, 2004 12:30 am

I will run it again when I get in and try figure out how to just do that  arithmatice test.  That PR number was produced before any bench test which is why it is Estimated so maybe it will be higher?

Oh and nothing is overclocked on PC at the moment.  Only the ram timings have been altered to 10.2.2.2 and thats it.
AMD64 3500+ @ 2200MHz 400FSB
MSI K8N Neo 2 mobo nForce3 chipset
1gig Corsair XMS PC3200 timings @ 10.2.2.2
XFX 6800 Ultra @ 450/1200
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Re: 64 bit?

Postby Gixer » Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:58 am

Figured it out

Image

Going by the Dhrystone test my CPU is equal to a P4 3.4Ghz

Those P4's do excellent on the Whetstone test!!
AMD64 3500+ @ 2200MHz 400FSB
MSI K8N Neo 2 mobo nForce3 chipset
1gig Corsair XMS PC3200 timings @ 10.2.2.2
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Re: 64 bit?

Postby congo » Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:55 pm

You got a good result all the same, and you probly still have overclock potential if you ever need it, which would push your results up quite a bit I would imagine.

I don't see that the P4's whetstone results would equate to a better gaming CPU, so I've never considered it important. I recommend Intel based machines to productivity oriented users, and AMD's to gamers.
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