Graphics Questions...

[bm_727]

Hey everyone,

I was wondering a few things about graphics in FS...

1. How can I make graphics like these...





into higher quality ones like these...




Is it just an issue of getting a graphic card??
Right now I'm running on a Pentium 4 w/512 RAM and Intel "Integrated Graphics" (came with the computer)...

2. If I do need a graphic card, which ones are the best and which ones are the cheapest?  What should I look for in a graphic card???

Thanks in advance-
bm

[Delta_]

To get graphics like you show, you need to use 4xAA, and some AF would help.  To get nice clouds and effects plus smooth gameplay a high graphics memory fillrate is a must.

You need to look at atleast an FX5200 128MB with 128-bit memory, even though running 4xAA will cause a big hit and FPS.  The best budget option is the 9600 (not se), the Radeon range can run AA with minimal hit on FPS.  Also the 9600 is the cheapest card that will allow you to set the water setting to high and keep it high, which looks amazing with Bill Lyons water effects pack.  Also to get long view distances a high graphics is needed, which will mean looking at higher cards, the 9600pro/5700U atleast to max this setting out (and all others) and not have your FPS crawl.  

I personnelly use the 9600xt and recommend this card, and i am sure others will post here and recommend other cards aswell, so it is ultimately you that decides.
Here are a couple of pics of what my game looks like: (this is how i actually run the game): http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb/ ... 1083333814

[JBaymore]

How DO they get that anti-gravity river to run along the face of the cliff like that in pix #5?  Amazing  ;)

Seriously..... check past threads here and you'll find ALL the info you need about this subject.  

Otherwise we risk the dreaded ATI/Nvidea wars.  ;D


best,

..............john

[bm_727]

keep in mind Hi-D that i'm a beginner- I have no clue what half the terms in ur post mean ...

also, I'm currently running FS2002 and all the shots in my first post are of that game...

[Delta_]

Ok just forget the part about the clouds, the water slider and bill lyons water pack (unless that is available for FS2k2).  

The fill rate is the amount of data it can get through its memory in 1 second, the larger the better.  

AA= Anti aliasing, this removes all jagged edges, hence why the lower pictures look jaggedless.

AF= Anisotropic filtering, this improves image quality, by rendering the image better.

FPS= Frames per second, the higher the better

128-bit memory, is the bandwidth of the memory, the bigger the better.

The Nvidia range in order of performance:
5200
5200U
5700
5700U
5900
5900U
5950U
6800
6800U

The ATi range in order of performance:
9200
9200pro
9600
9600pro
9600xt
9800
9800pro
9800xt
X800
X800pro
X800xt

You will find the FX5200 will be a good option for FS2k2.  Just watch out for 64-bit versions, they are slow compared to 128-bit version because they have half the memory bandwidth.  Another card to look at is the 9200, this is the equilivalent card to the FX5200, however it lacks DX9.0 acceleration, which for FS2k2 you won't miss anything but for newer 3D programs you will.  

It really depends on your budget on what you choose from those listed above.  Maximising the card you get for your budget is the best way to get the optimal performance at the best price for you.

[Iroquois]

keep in mind Hi-D that i'm a beginner- I have no clue what half the terms in ur post mean ...

also, I'm currently running FS2002 and all the shots in my first post are of that game...

Sometimes we forget about the newbies when explaining things. I'll explain some common graphics terms.

AA- Antialaising: This is used to eliminate the "stair step" along the edge of graphics. It can be set to various degrees.

AF- Anioscopic Filtering: Improves image quality to various degrees dependion on what it is set at.

FPS: Frames Per Second: How many frames the card is showing per second. Images on the screen are sets of stills showen at a fast rate to give the illusion of movement. A film at a movie theater runs at 16fps for example.

Memory Bit Rate: How fast the memory can store information and how much can be stored per clock cycle. Video Ram (VRAM for short) usually comes in DDR (Double Data Rate) format.

Core Clock Bit Rate: How fast and how much information can travel in and out of the Graphics Processing Unit (GPU). 256-bit is the rate at what most common cards run at.

DirectX 9.0b: Developed by Microsoft, DX is the form of graphics encoding that FS2004 and many other games use. Version 9.0b is the latest version and can be downloaded from Microsoft. FS2002 used DirectX 8 but will benefit from 9.

OpenGL: Another form of graphics encoding similar to DirectX.


First of all, that Intel Integrated graphics is no good. Get yourself an AGP graphics card. AGP is a port inside your machine that was designed specifically for graphics processing. Most come in 4X or 8X depending on the age of the motherboard. The board's instruction booklet will tell you what speed your's supports. Most P4's should support the supperior 8X. If you have a fast CPU, get the best card you can afford. It really doesn't matter whether you buy an nVidia or ATI card, they both have their strengths and weaknesses. Just be sure you get one your satisfied with. A better idea still is to visit Guru3d.com's forums. They specialize in graphics and hardware advice and I've gotten a lot of help from them in the past.

[bm]

A film at a movie theater runs at 16fps for example.

I am pretty sure movies run at 24fps with motion blur.

[bm]

Same discussion here!

http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb/ ... 19;start=5

[congo]

Hi bm_727,

Put Simply.....

You can get graphics like that right now. It's done with settings.

Even if you get a fancy new graphics card, you have to set it up, so you may as well learn now.

1. your onboard graphics chip driver settings.....

you will find them if you right click your desktop, click properties, then settings, then advanced. You should then see a tab at the top of that screen that states the name of your onboard graphics chip. (it might say "Intel Xtreme Gaphics" or something like that)

go through and experiment with different settings there.

That's where you enable full screen antialiasing and anisotropic filtering.... (ie. AA and AF)

You don't need full AA settings, 2x is quite an improvement as long as you set your screen resolution in the game to at least 1024x768 (x32 if you want good color).

Anisotropic filtering (if you have that option), is going to do things like show the distant scenery clearer, but it's a FPS killer, so you might want it off until you get a new card.

2. Set the graphics options in your simulator higher (make sure you do the above first)

Leave antialiasing off in the Sim's settings, the driver settings will over ride it and do a better job.


NOW,

you are going to find that things will slow down a lot, that's Frames Per Second, or, the result of your computers power and the software and settings you have.

You will have to buy a quality third party graphics card to get FPS speed with high graphic quality. The onboard stuff just isn't up to it.

Oh, and finally, Some planes just don't look that good.

[Iroquois]

Don't forget that frame rates in FS depend a lot on the CPU as well. It's making a lot of complex calculations to make that airplane fly realistically.

I'd be interested to see thoes card benchmarks for an Athlon64 CPU. I was going to get one but I don't want to come down with a bad case of buyer's remorse.

[bm_727]

Thanks to everyone who responded-
sorry I haven't posted in a few days ...

Thanks for the explanations Orenda and Hi-D

FPS: Frames Per Second: How many frames the card is showing per second. Images on the screen are sets of stills showen at a fast rate to give the illusion of movement. A film at a movie theater runs at 16fps for example.

I'm not that much of a newb-- I know what FPS are
Also, I'm not worried about them- currently I'm getting around 50-60 with mild addon scenery...

Also, I don't just want a card for FS2002, so I guess I want one with DX9 support.  Also, (WITHOUT starting a war!!) what are the strengths and weaknesses between Nvidia & Ati cards?

[Delta_]

DX9 accelerated cards:
Nvidia
FX5200series
FX5700series
FX5900series
6800series

ATi
9600series
9800series
X800series


Nvidia cards do better in openGl mode, whereas ATi do better in Direct3d mode.  This becomes more apparent in Directx9 graphics.

[Scottler]

Another thing to consider is that for screenshots, things like fps don't matter, because it's a still image.

If you're looking to boost the overall quality of play, then definitely upgrade.  But if you're happy with what you've got as far as the quality, and just want to make pretty still shots, just boost your sliders up and take the pictures, ignoring the stuttering video.

[Iroquois]

If you do upgrade to a better card, don't forget to deactivate the integrated graphics on your bios.

If you have the money to spend, here's some more details on the nVidia 6800 and the ATI X800

6800 http://www.nvidia.com/page/geforce_6800.html

X800 http://www.ati.com/buy/promotions/rx800/aib.html

Like Hi-D mentioned, ATI and nVidia both have their strengths and weakesses. ATI has a lot of raw power but less drivers to choose from meaning reduced compatability. nVidia cards have the benefit of being rock stable with a hugh amount of drivers to choose from. However there are rumors that they do not preform as well with DX9 although this was supposed to have been fixed in the 6800. I also found that ATI cards tend to cost more but that may have changed because I haven't looked at graphics card prices in a while.

What ever card you get, with a fast system don't go under nVidia's FX series or ATI's 9X00 series

[Scottler]

Usually true, Orenda, but not always.  For example, I didn't have to disable my onboard graphics to run my 5200...it surprised me.  lol