New Hardware

[Nick N]

I would much rather own 2 7950's in SLi ( or even as dual outputs, clocked up) to run FSX over a single 8800 card for 4 reasons

1. They do not suffer from the shader engine problems
2. I could run them for -well- over a year.. close to 1.5 years
3. I would spend less money than if I had upgraded to a top of the line 8800GTX after 9 months and thrown out an expensive solution I was running before
4. By the time they reach their useful life, the next gen products will be out and I did not loose a dime.

I am no ones ginny pig.. especialy for 400-600 bucks. Nvidia can find someone else to both sucker finance their R&D

The 80nm and G90, that may be different, but I did not fall off a turnip truck last week

[DizZa]

"Lets put dual video cards through one slot and sell it for $600 and hype it up as quad SLI with 4x performance, then sell it to rich kiddies!".

Well, I am not sure you have ever played a game with 2 7950GX2s in quad mode but they are rock solid and get the job done quite well.

When they first came out there was nothing on the market that could keep up with them. In fact a single 7950 GX2 was considered the fastest card on the market.

I read a lot of the reviews about the cards before I bought mine and there were 2 lines of thought about them. One side loved them, the other hated them.

Like everything else, they were dependent on the rest of your hardware. I ran mine with an overclocked 4400 with no problem and now run them with my AM2 6000.

Nick and I spent some time tweaking the system to run right. Because of Nick my 3DMard06 scores jumped from 8000 to 9800 so I don't think the 7950s did to bad. On the same tweaked system I could not get my 7900 GTX anywhere near those scores.

I have not tweaked the 6000 yet but that is coming soon.

Ok, well, my post was kinda a joke. Sorry.

I Just hate it how they got two cards and marketted it as one; and now people say it's faster than the X1950XTX. While true, it just is.... "strange.....".... ....
...

[ATI_7500]

Try playing a modern game on a 5950 then a 9800. I wouldn't even consider a 5950 Direct X 9, more like Direct X 8.1 with DX9 features.

A 5950 is as Dx-9 compatible as a 9800.
The question is which card uses it better.

The mein difference between ATI and NVidia is the image quality. The latter company seems to sacrifice it a bit for the perfomance.

Also wasn't the 5950 the one with the hair dryer fan?

That was the 5800.

Exactly. "Lets put dual video cards through one slot and sell it for $600 and hype it up as quad SLI with 4x performance, then sell it to rich kiddies!".

LoL!

SLI was never about doubling the perfomance. Even not back in Voodoo days.

That is AMDs first installment of the R600.

It's pretty good as the benchmarks show, but the ~10% advantage is no reason for me to trade my 8800GTS for a 2900XT.

[DizZa]

That was the 5800.

LOL!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWuSKXo98kE

LoL!  

SLI was never about doubling the perfomance. Even not back in Voodoo days.

Exactly.

Yet I see big Crossfire / Nvidia stickers saying UPTO 2x PERFORMANCE!!!!!!!111

It's pretty good as the benchmarks show, but the ~10% advantage is no reason for me to trade my 8800GTS for a 2900XT.

Them benchmarks I linked you to were made by ATI. Here are some benchmarks done my Dailytech:
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=7052

Something is fishy there as explained in the FSX & SLI thread, but freaken hell......

DAAMIT!!!!

If them benchmarks are true, I would need a 8800 for gaming, which also wouldn't perform as well in fsX. Midrange DX10 cards are less than Stellar too. As for as I have hear \ know, both have 256mb of memory with under 40gb/s of bandwidth.

[ATI_7500]

Yet I see big Crossfire / Nvidia stickers saying UPTO 2x PERFORMANCE!!!!!!!111

They're right...double the perfomance...under certain conditions!

It's just a matter of interpretation.

[richardd43]

A 7950 running in multi monitor mode really does suck. Using 3DMark06 for a comparison I get about 4600 in single mode but am capable of over 8600 in SLI.

I am not sure the 7950 series is a good test of the SLI function. I would like to see someone with a pair of 7800s or 7900s tell us how their cards faired with SLI.

I am not fond of 3DMarkXX but it does give me a base number when I want to change something.

[Nick N]

Several things I said I do not want put on a pedestal and hyped past my meaning

[Nick N]

And one can argue its all about whats going on today and not whats happening in 3 months.. fine

Did Daily Tech follow a reasonable scientific approach?

Was their PSU up to the task because that card MUST have the right amount of insane current on a 6 and 8 pin input or it will NOT perform and will lag.

Did they mention anything about how the cards run titles like FSX in comparision?

Did they mention anything about visual quality comparisons?

Did they run the test systems in crossfire/SLi on the right hardware? Or for god sakes even a series of different chipsets to compare the results?

Did they compare driver -stability- and the list of issues in XP and Vista?

[Nick N]

A 7950 running in multi monitor mode really does suck. Using 3DMark06 for a comparison I get about 4600 in single mode but am capable of over 8600 in SLI.

I am not sure the 7950 series is a good test of the SLI function. I would like to see someone with a pair of 7800s or 7900s tell us how their cards faired with SLI.

I am not fond of 3DMarkXX but it does give me a base number when I want to change something.

3D Mark should only be used as you have done.. for a baseline for your own observations. Even with that Nvidia and Intel have been manipulating the software for a very long time. Ati did that a long time ago and they were caught as well as Nvidia. It is my understanding ATi decided to go for IQ over playing games but Nvidia is still doing 3Dmark manipulation so trying to use the software for anything but a personal base line evaluation is useless other than something to consider, not rely on. Also, given the influence both Nvidia and the higher function Intel procesors have in the benchmark as compared to a real game, you can never use it to evaluate how well hardware will actually run a game title.

I use for tests, mostly for clocking a system because one thing it will do honestly and without cheats is heat up the hardware so I can find the sweet spots in a clock.


I still think the 7950 and x1950xtx when properly paired and set up with the right supporting hardware was/is the best FSX solution until the next gen of cards get released and debugged.

[richardd43]

I agree with the 3DMark statement. I used it because most people are used to it.

For gaming I use my eyeballs. If the game does not stutter and there are no jaggies I am set to go.

Games like HL2 and Farcry I just set everything to max and let it rip.

I have been playing with Vista which is not capable of quad sli. I have to get it moved to another computer so I can re-install my second board.

The second board is actually not required for most of the games but I am thinking I would like it installed for FSX

I have not done much with FSX yet. Thought I would wait for SP1 and then the input for my system from my favorite computer wizard.

[Nick N]

I agree with the 3DMark statement. I used it because most people are used to it.

For gaming I use my eyeballs. If the game does not stutter and there are no jaggies I am set to go.

Games like HL2 and Farcry I just set everything to max and let it rip.

I have been playing with Vista which is not capable of quad sli. I have to get it moved to another computer so I can re-install my second board.

The second board is actually not required for most of the games but I am thinking I would like it installed for FSX

I have not done much with FSX yet. Thought I would wait for SP1 and then the input for my system from my favorite computer wizard.

SLi is all in the driver. The problem is Nvidia is having trouble with Vista. Its not the OS, its the driver developer

Crossfire works in Vista and ATi is also planning an external box that allows up to 5 cards be run in crossfire for full graphic and physics support from all 5. Nvidia has a similar design but it is only for 3D rendering workstations and does not work for games.

I love it when a web site like the Daily Tech uses a nForce 680i motherboard on Windows XP to test a state of the art 100% Vista Certified card and I will bet they used a crap PSU with multiple rails on top of the fact that the XTX they tested is not the retail version.

Real winner there. Gotta love the report that the XT is faster when it was run an intel 975 and a Qx6700. I believe it only because of the idiots that set up the tests.




On another note... I will be a bit late in posting the initial settings. I started on it and this week has turned out to be a busy one. I will have something posted on Saturday for sure. I will try for noon PST so we have some time to go back and forth with numbers if necessary.

[richardd43]

Saturday would be great. As I said before, if it gets down to a time crunch, this can wait.

[Nick N]

Them benchmarks I linked you to were made by ATI. Here are some benchmarks done my Dailytech:
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=7052

Something is fishy there as explained in the FSX & SLI thread, but freaken hell......

DAAMIT!!!!

If them benchmarks are true, I would need a 8800 for gaming, which also wouldn't perform as well in fsX. Midrange DX10 cards are less than Stellar too. As for as I have hear \ know, both have 256mb of memory with under 40gb/s of bandwidth.

Kombatant: www.kombatant.com AMD/ATI employee, (ex) Beyond3D/Rage3D mod:

On a serious note, I still see some stuff out there that have no merit. Patience.
They christened the OEM version we've known and loved for quite a few months as an "XTX". That should tell you a lot about their credibility actually.
Ok, so before this goes totally out of hand, let me say this, and this will be my final say on the matter, until the NDA is lifted: AMD made certain decisions concerning this card. I took a hard look out there, to see what's being leaked, and it seems there are still some stuff that are totally made up - tbh, it smells like a FUD campaign to me, if I take into consideration certain emails that are flying around lately. Certainly there are some stuff out there that are true, and you will know which is which when the NDA lifts soonish. The journalists that were in Tunis certainly know, and are probably laughing at some of those at this minute.

So, to recap: What I've said in the past stands about the card (Sound_Card been on a mission to put all of my quotes in his sig so that we don't miss anything ). Unfortunately I can't reveal more at this point due to the NDA. And for those who are wondering, no, I am not a moderator/staff on Rage3D anymore, I stepped down two months ago, because it wouldn't be ethical imo with the new job I now have to continue do work here.

As I said, some info out there are accurate, some are not. Whatever rumours are out there certainly won't force AMD to reveal stuff sooner, that simply doesn't work, whether you're called Intel, AMD, nVIDIA or whatever.

Bum_JCRules @ THG (under NDA with cards):

Total Crap.. well almost:
While I am required to follow the NDA, the stuff up on Daily Tech today is almost worthless. Yes Anandtech was present in Tunisia (signing Non-disclosure agreements like the Inquirer), why they are posting this stuff is beyond me because their numbers are off. They must be only using the XP drivers and OS because the numbers in CF vs the GTX are very much different. So until I can officially comment on the architecture and the performance.. hold all of this as useless until the rest of the world writes about it.
I really would love to comment on this stuff...

I understand that DT and Anand are seperate but that is so childish. Derek was there and his cards got to his place of business before he returned home from Tunisia. That long board they have ... Not what Derek should have gotten in his delivery. That is all I will say before I go too far.

Metro.cl (under NDA with cards): www.chilehardware.com

laughable (whistling emoticon (wasn't me))

BenchZowner (under NDA and has card):

1) These benchies from DailyTech are quite off the reality, that's all I can say.

2)The 2900XTX & the 8800GTX are performing on par in Crysis at the moment ( direct info from a developer of the game )
3) Is it a deja-vu ? Remember the Mr Sanders case ? The...non invited to the press event at Ibiza editor of Hardware Analysis who wanted to "punish" ATi by publishing his...numbers of desire for the R580 ? He he, Deja-Vu

http://rage3d.com/board/showpost.php?p= ... count=5403


I can confirm, these are accurate for the XT but were not the official release drivers

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php? ... count=3322




I can not say anything about the XTX other than it does pull away from the GTX but not by leaps and bounds. There are also shader engine differences that will put it over the top of the GTX and Ultra. Its not so much about the frames but how it looks too.