2020 is a game, not a simulator

Talk about the new Microsoft Flight Simulator

2020 is a game, not a simulator

Postby jb44mag » Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:51 am

In my view, this is clearly a game focused on scenery. IMHO this is not a flight simulator. it is clear the developers have tailored the game for joysticks. There is no method to program the hat switch on the Eclipse yoke. The game relies too much on the keyboard for sim pilots in my view. A switch panel like the 4227 is not even recognized by the game. The scenery is marvelous. really! But the lack up actual simulator experience returns me to P3D. For that I am sorry, but disappointed in this effort. The developers produce marvelous games, but not a simulator.

Jim
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Re: 2020 is a game, not a simulator

Postby jb44mag » Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:04 pm

It is a desktop aviator 2040 30 toggel usb switch assembly. wonderful for relieving many keyboard operations.
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Re: 2020 is a game, not a simulator

Postby cevans » Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:44 pm

Been some years since I flew with my licence, and ever will again sadly, but my initial thoughts too are that this is more aimed at gamers than a real simulation of real flying.

BUT there are caveats in that argument. Many have the opposite opinion too :)

* Early days.
* The sim is very tailorable.
* There is room for a lot of modification. Some would say unlimited modification.
* Requires a different approach than previous MSFS series and therefore a lot to learn for those of us who've been simming a long time.
* more ;)

At this time I find the aircraft totally unrealistic. My own joystick and MSFS seem to be speaking a different language. The aircraft veer and sway all over the place. For example the throttle works perfectly in P3D (and previously FSX) but in MSFS 2020 it's a switch which is off or on. Turn the joystick slightly to the left and it's full left bank and out of control . I could go on. The hat switch works, then it doesn't work. Then it works. Then not ....

It's very offputting. The startup time is also a drag.
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Re: 2020 is a game, not a simulator

Postby Very_Old_Man » Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:02 pm

Thanks for the opinions & comments re this gaming situation. Really disappointing to read about the problems with a joystick! I have an MS Sidewinder I have used for many years in FSX. It seems to respond very well in FSX. I get the impression that will not be the case in FS2020.
Agree out there???
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Re: 2020 is a game, not a simulator

Postby eno » Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:22 pm

my x52 was picked up straight away .. with pre programed functions already allocated .... i would suggest that your sidwinder will come with similar pre programed functions too old man.

there is a lot of room for development and yes aspects of it are a bit gamey ... but you can manipulate the settings to suit .. the scenery is the biggest improvement from older versions and although it has the glitches that any new program of this type has there is obvious scope for the freeware developers to mend and amend.

looking in the market place its obvious that M$ and the developers are out to make money out of enhancing the scenery with stuff that should have been there in the first place ..... but once again i think the freeware developers will be ahead of that one once things settle down.
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Re: 2020 is a game, not a simulator

Postby storm_cloud » Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:53 pm

Maybe they should call it the "Scenery Edition" BadaBing!
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Re: 2020 is a game, not a simulator

Postby jb44mag » Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:17 pm

After reading some of the other comments I’m prepared to say Microsoft flight simulator 2020 will never be a simulator, I mean flight simulator. What planes we fly today use a yoke has the control input. Not a joystick. And when you write simulator for joysticks there are serious issues when using a yoke. If you look at the program variables, there are they are all joystick variables.

I’ve been flying Microsoft flight simulator and then prepare 3-D since windows XP. I do have a lot of experience. I’ve used Microsoft flight simulator prepare for a real flight period after hours flying a Coronado 172, I went up in a friends 172 took off floor round and landed as the pilot in command. Of course my friend was hovering over the controls to take over if I screwed up. The point is I didn’t screw up. I don’t see this ever being a flight simulator where you could practice and then fly the real plane. It’s a game written for Xbox controllers an Xbox joysticks. All the above is just my opinion and I would love to be proven wrong because the scenery in 2020 is wonderful. I fly all the ORBX software for scenery And most current auto planes that are in their product line lineup.

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Re: 2020 is a game, not a simulator

Postby jb44mag » Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:24 pm

Having trouble typing, old age. Just a correction: Carenado planes is what I meant to type. Anyway, back to flying p3d on high end pc I built last year.

-jim
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Re: 2020 is a game, not a simulator

Postby papituwall » Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:39 pm

Don't waste your time and don't waste space in the forums, continue with your simulators.
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Re: 2020 is a game, not a simulator

Postby cevans » Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:15 pm

papituwall wrote:Don't waste your time and don't waste space in the forums, continue with your simulators.

Actually I think this is a really interesting subject and probably being thought by very very many users around the world. It seems the game/sim/whatever it proves to be is pretty tailored for different controllers. Certainly mine is a joke.

I have gone into calibration. All axes etc move perfectly there . But try flying? Different matter entirely. Aircraft are just uncontrollable with my joystick. We will see as time goes on. Meanwhile I'm with P3D v5. Many of the original MSFS developers are now working for Lockheed Martin

Now if that had GE scenery. Can dream :D <<v
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Re: 2020 is a game, not a simulator

Postby expat » Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:01 am

jb44mag wrote:What planes we fly today use a yoke has the control input. Not a joystick. And when you write simulator for joysticks there are serious issues when using a yoke. If you look at the program variables, there are they are all joystick variables.


The"simulator" picked up and profiled my Saitek yoke and throttles without any input from me and functioned without problems.
The problem I have is with VRinsite and and Logitech who took over Saitek. Both of these companies have made it clear they will not support FS2020 with regards to their panel hardware. Like many others we are having to wait on third party support.

As for it not being a simulator, I have spoken to several real world pilots who will disagree with that. It seems to me that most people are comparing this sim to FSX and FSX does not have anything close to the flight dynamics of this sim. Air movement has been modelled over the whole of the aircraft for and this is not the case in FSX.

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2. And, if you have time to write the fault on a napkin and attach to it to the yoke.........you have time to write it in the tech log....see point 1.
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Re: 2020 is a game, not a simulator

Postby Sinkrate » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:42 am

Does anyone have X-Plane 11? How does it compare to FS2020. My version of FS2020 is now permanently FUBAR :evil: (very expensive lesson well learnt), so I am looking for a suitable alternative. I have X-Plane 10 on disks so is it worth the upgrade?
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Re: 2020 is a game, not a simulator

Postby Daube » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:25 am

I would be curious to know what could make your sim permanently fubar...
If you messed up with the files and it doesn't work anymore, then why don't you just reinstall it ?

Concerning XPlane11, it's the only sim I use right now and since a few months.
Just for info, in the past 20 years I've used extensively FS9, then FSX, then P3D up to P3Dv4. I have used XPlane11 at the same time as I used P3Dv3 and P3Dv4.
Right now, XPlane 11 offers lower graphic quality levels than MSFS. However, XPlane 11 offers much more planes and helicopters with realistic flight models and realistic instruments, both paywares and freewares.
However MSFS will evolve very fast and many addon makers are coming to it, so this comparison might not be valid for long.

Concerning your question about jumping from XP10 to XP11 while waiting for MSFS to reach a higher level of completion, I don't know what to answer.
XP11 is reaching the end of its life. XP12 has not been announced yet, but many people are waiting for it.
Nobody knows when XP12 will be released (if it's released...) or what XP12 will bring, and nobody knows if it will reach the visual quality of MSFS.

If I were you, I'd just fix my MSFS and wait a few more month to see how things evolve, what kind of addons appear on the freeware and payware markets, etc... Now is not the time to buy another sim.
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Re: 2020 is a game, not a simulator

Postby rooitou » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:56 am

Sinkrate wrote:Does anyone have X-Plane 11? How does it compare to FS2020. My version of FS2020 is now permanently FUBAR :evil: (very expensive lesson well learnt), so I am looking for a suitable alternative. I have X-Plane 10 on disks so is it worth the upgrade?

The short answer: X-Plane 11 is a significant improvement on X-Plane 10 and in some respects better than P3D, but has terrible ATC, Flight Planning and ground handling, especially when there is a cross-wind. XP11 looks like the cartoon version of FS2020, there is no comparison. However, if you're moving from XP10, you will be very impressed and happy with XP11.

The long answer: I have the whole lot; FS9, FSX, P3D v3 and v4, X-Plane 10 and 11 and now MSFS (XBOX Gamepass $5/month) and for me the new FS2020 is head and shoulders the best. Yes it is not perfect, but my goodness it is just so much better than the rest by a country mile.

I have recently started going through all my old scenery add-on purchases, flying them one by one; first in FSX, then P3Dv4 (with all the ORBX and other bells&whistles), then XP11 and lastly in FS2020. OMG I can't even begin to say how much better FS2020 is. Suddenly there are landmarks and features everywhere, even way off in the distance and everything looks real.

To me the planes in FS2020 are very well done. I used to fly in real life and have about 200 hours on a C172 and Tiger Moth and I am thoroughly enjoying the smaller aircraft (don't like tubeliners, so haven't flown them and cannot comment). I really like the way one's head is bobbing around in the aircraft, especially when there is a bit of turbulence, makes it feel much more alive and real. Turning on the ground is a bit too unresponsive though, but it is still miles better than XP11, where it feels like you're trying to control a soapbox car with tyres squealing. The ground handling of taildraggers in XP11 is laughable, nowhere near realistic (There are some exceptions, but probably needed a lot of work by the developer to override default XP11 parameters).

Bottom line: I agree with Daube, yes XP11 is a significant improvement on XP10, but I would suggest trying to get MSFS working and/or wait to see what's up with XP12. (I have stopped investing in XP11, FSX and P3D, didn't even bother with P3Dv5. For me FS2020 is the future.
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Re: 2020 is a game, not a simulator

Postby cevans » Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:06 am

I have recently started going through all my old scenery add-on purchases, flying them one by one; first in FSX, then P3Dv4 (with all the ORBX and other bells&whistles), then XP11 and lastly in FS2020. OMG I can't even begin to say how much better FS2020 is. Suddenly there are landmarks and features everywhere, even way off in the distance and everything looks real.


Well not quite real for me.

Maybe in certain cities the landscapes are realistic but when you live outside cities like I do it's not at all correct. At least not for me. In fact I almost prefer the scenery in P3Dv5 (which is quite an improvement on V4). And I find the weather appearance in P3D5 better than MSFS. So far.

In real life around me there are scenic landscapes, old buildings, specific woodlands with lakes and trees and lots of homes, churches etc . Very little is actually correct. It's just a rough casting of the scenery from Bing maps but with errors. I could take google earth screenshots and MSFS screenshots to show the vast difference but I couldn't be bothered because it's just the way it is.
I can't fly around my house because it's not there. the woods beside my house are there but in a completely wrong shape and area size. In fact my house is probably in the middle of that woodland :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

If your area is correct then I guess you are lucky. Sure cities are great. Still a lot to discover but I get cheesed off with MSFS within minutes as I can't control a/c with my stick.

And meanwhile I'm gonna have to find an aircraft that doesn't fly around like a leaf blowing in the wind :lol: and maybe get a new (used) stick on ebay (on my limited budget) :think:

But! A lot of scope and it's just the start of this :D
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