Mission builder problem

[monsta99]

I have been using mission builder to make missions using helicopters and other modern planes and have been having a problem with the sim crashing during these missions. Sometimes a mission will go fine, but most times they will crash, sometimes on startup, sometimes right when things are getting good . I 've tried limiting the planes in my a/c folder, using MDLRepair, and a few other things I can't recall right now. Can CFS fly helicopters? I see helos for CFS2 on the download pages. Any ideas?

[Dakota93]

Neither CFS or CFS2 can handle helicoptors as AI, though the player can fly them. This should not cause a problem with CFS2 CTD, usually if you try and have AI choppers they just fall out of the sky and crash.

[monsta99]

Thanks Dakota93! That explains it. I was wondering why all the other choppers met such unfortunate fates so quicky when there is nothing to shoot them down. I will edit my missions and try them again.

[IndioBlack]

CFS & CFS2 will both handle AI Helicopters. In the Korean War Campaigns & Missions featuring Carriers we have always had the recovery Helo buzzing around the Carrier, and sometimes missions feauturing a rescue Helicopter for the downed pilot. You have to be careful about altitudes and speeds, but they do work without any special problems.
We have never had them in an attack role, though.

[Hagar]

Maybe I should point out that these are special AI Only helicopters with fixed-wing AIR files. The CFS AI pilots cannot handle proper helos.

[IndioBlack]

Yes, exactly, that's the trick. There's always a way round things, as we know only too well.
Wasn't there a Commercial add-on for CFS1, set in Vietnam, that featured Hueys? I believe they would have had a special AI friendly Huey and a separate Player version to make it work.

[bozotheclown338]

i had the same problem

[Hagar]

i had the same problem

It's not exactly a problem. The point is that CFS was never intended for helicopters or modern jets. The AI pilots can't handle them. Neither can the AI pilots in FS for that matter. There is usually a way over these things if you use a little lateral thinking. Take the helos as an example. What you do is to have 2 versions of the same helo, the flyable one as Player aircraft & a special AI Only drone. The AI drone uses a fixed wing AIR file + Aircraft.cfg & will fly in AI just like a fixed wing aircraft. It's not perfect but it works. Check out the Fox Four campaigns.

[Bombardier101]

The only AI helos CFS1 and 2 can handle are the ones with a fixed-wing air file

[IndioBlack]

Well, I'm going to have to disagree here. In CFS1, I had a few Korean War Navy campaigns which amongst other things, featured AI versions of an SR-51 and a "whirlybirds" chopper. Both airfiles were untampered original Helos, because I really hate working on airfiles, and if it ain't broke, I don't fix it.
The SR-51 mainly circled the carrier to pick up ditched pilots, whereas I used the whirlybirds to fly into enemy territory to pick up downed pilots. The whirlybird was a much better airfile and flew the waypoints perfectly, whereas the SR-51 was much slower and occasionally crashed into mountains during turns, so I relegated it to carrier duties only.
I certainly didn't make the mistake of having them take-off or land, but they did fly the waypoints.

[Hagar]

Mike. I doubt very much that these had proper helicopter AIR files to start with. Many of the older 3rd party helos for CFS1 (even some for FS98 ) had modified fixed-wing AIR files. They were much easier to fly in CFS1 than the proper FS98 helos. All helicoper flight dynamics were based on the default Bell206B which is very difficult to fly in CFS1. Even if the AIR file was recognised I'm pretty certain the AI pilots couldn't handle it.

PS. I recall the same question cropping up soon after FS2002 was released. FS2002 was the first version of FS to feature AI traffic which works on the same basic principle as the AI aircraft in CFS1 & CFS2. When Lee Swordy came up with his clever TTools utility which allowed you to modify the AI traffic the helos wouldn't work. I reasoned that if my modified AI Only helo worked in CFS1 it would do the same in FS2002. I tried it & it did. I posted a shot to prove it. If you look back far enough in the FS2002 forum archives the topic should still be there although the shot will have been deleted long ago. This was the forerunner of the S-51 we use in the FF campaigns. It all came round in a big circle.