History repeats itself

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Re: History repeats itself

Postby Hawkeye07 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:28 pm

Daube...
"Concerning the "elitist" comments, you might have forgotten "elitism" is the very essence of flight simulators. The purpose of the flight simulators is to focus on the realism to get away from simple "games" which are perhaps more entertaining, and certainly easier to manipulate. Simmers are looking for realism."

Sorry mate but I don't agree either. There isn't a flight simulator out there that I would say really exhibits "realism." Until I can feel the bumps as I taxi down Kilo at DTW like I have in real life in DC-9's and A-320's and smell the burning JP and NOT hit "esc" to end the flight or "P" to pause it so you can go get a sandwich then it's still a "game."
Immersion is where the fun/challenge is created.

But please, would you expound on your comment about ""elitism" is the very essence of flight simulators." I would really like to know your thoughts on this as I have never thought of flight simming as an elitist activity. Perhaps I'm too much of a "loner" to realize I'm an elitist? Please reply.
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Re: History repeats itself

Postby Daube » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:07 pm

Your view of the problem is quite limited I guess. FS9 suits your needs, that's cool for you.
In the more modern sim, people like me who can't pilot a real Landcaster in real life can at least learn how a real Spitfire engine works, starts and reacts to throttle or pilot errors, thanks to the Accusim Spitfire.
In FS9 this just doesn't exist at all, and that's why the sim is obsolete. That doesn't mean it's not fun to use anymore.
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Re: History repeats itself

Postby Daube » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:19 pm

Hawkeye07 wrote:Daube...
"Concerning the "elitist" comments, you might have forgotten "elitism" is the very essence of flight simulators. The purpose of the flight simulators is to focus on the realism to get away from simple "games" which are perhaps more entertaining, and certainly easier to manipulate. Simmers are looking for realism."

Sorry mate but I don't agree either. There isn't a flight simulator out there that I would say really exhibits "realism." Until I can feel the bumps as I taxi down Kilo at DTW like I have in real life in DC-9's and A-320's and smell the burning JP and NOT hit "esc" to end the flight or "P" to pause it so you can go get a sandwich then it's still a "game."
Immersion is where the fun/challenge is created.

But please, would you expound on your comment about ""elitism" is the very essence of flight simulators." I would really like to know your thoughts on this as I have never thought of flight simming as an elitist activity. Perhaps I'm too much of a "loner" to realize I'm an elitist? Please reply.


The principle of a flight simulator is to reproduce with the highest possible fidelity the way an aircraft works and behaves. It has to be like the "real thing" as much as possible.
Reproducing reality to the highest possible degree, this is the definition of "realism".
That's the big differences with "games" which are aimed at being fun, without caring about the real thing.
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Re: History repeats itself

Postby Hawkeye07 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:10 pm

Daube wrote:The principle of a flight simulator is to reproduce with the highest possible fidelity the way an aircraft works and behaves. It has to be like the "real thing" as much as possible.
Reproducing reality to the highest possible degree, this is the definition of "realism".
That's the big differences with "games" which are aimed at being fun, without caring about the real thing.


I believe our definitions of a "Flight Simulator" are quite different. A true flight simulator is what the airlines and military use to train their aircrew. They are usually a close resemblance to the actual cockpit or flight station and are full motion or close to it. Our little desk top FSX or P3D versions leave much to be desired in the realm of realism. But they are still fun as hell to "fly." :D
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Re: History repeats itself

Postby B0ikat » Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:18 pm

As Hawkeye said, "But they are still fun as hell to "fly."

That's the point. The aim of any of the Microsoft sims or their derivatives, even as a real-world training aid. is the enjoyment factor. "Fun".

Personally, I'm content with FSX + Acceleration + freeware add on aircraft and scenery. Worrying about having the latest and greatest takes away from the fun factor. And I'm not just saying that because I'm a cheapskate (Which I am) but because there are more important things in life (Like why can't I get the animations to work in Blender 2 FSX?) :?:
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Re: History repeats itself

Postby zswobbie1 » Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:35 am

Guys (& gals, if there are any here), we are talking about products that were developed by Microsoft Gaming Studios at the time.

Our kids at our Young Falcons Academy are taught how to fly using so-called obsolete software. They do not need to know how a Spitfire flies at all, & it's still good enough to get then to PPL level.

Anyhow....
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Re: History repeats itself

Postby Hagar » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:00 am

B0ikat wrote:Personally, I'm content with FSX + Acceleration + freeware add on aircraft and scenery. Worrying about having the latest and greatest takes away from the fun factor. And I'm not just saying that because I'm a cheapskate (Which I am) but because there are more important things in life ...................

My thoughts exactly. :handgestures-thumbupright:
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Re: History repeats itself

Postby B0ikat » Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:50 pm

I noticed you didn't even bother to hide the links to on-line gambling. Tsk!
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