Prepar3d V3. Goodby

[OldAirmail]

Now that Prepar3d V3 is out and I've looked over the many improvements bug fixes, I'm just about to lump Prepar3d in with Microsoft Flight.

A soon to be dead end.


The biggest improvement was to OOM/VAS. And that only reduces the problem - "Improved memory management reducing overall VAS usage and spikes"

How was that done? By cutting a corner off here or there. Unloading some parts of un-used scenery. Shaving a little one place or another.

In other word, they didn't fix it. They just made it so you can fly a little farther before P3d crashes.

Flying low & slow, OOM's was never a problem for me.

For the high tube flyers who like demanding aircraft like the PMDG planes - again, you can fly a little longer. Before you crash. And burn. And restart Prepar3d again.



What else was improved?

The level of detail range for the ground scenery? No.

For those who don't know, P3d V2.5x has a circle (in the scenery) around the aircraft. Beyond that circle, everything is blurry. I guess that is one of the way that they reduced the OOM/VAS problem. Cutting corners, shaving a little here and there. Yeah, thanks.

Polished metal aircraft skins? Maybe. That's not mentioned per se. Only something about "real-time reflections on objects":

•Cube map render added to system enabling real-time reflections on objects
•Fixed issues with water reflections that were affected by secondary views
•Fixed water rendering issues while using non-tessellated terrain including reflection appearance and shadow brightness
•Fixed bug with fog appearance in reflections



When you get right down to it the "improvements" are very few.

Just look under the title Platform Improvements

How about the very first "improvement"?
"Flights" terminology has been changed to "Scenario" better reflecting Prepar3D's full land, sea, and air training capabilities
All I can say is WOW!

How about:
•Scenario captions now on by default
Double WOW!

And this one:
•Fixed bug where child views could become panel-only after being opened
That one troubled me ALL the time.

And this one too!
•Fixed bug where changing the assignment of the "esc" key would not register
Never again will that be a problem.


Remember, these and other bug fixes are under "Platform Improvements".



I have no doubt that tracking down the huge number of listed bug fixes took a lot of time.

But unless LM pulls a rabbit out of the hat on Wednesday I'm pretty sure that I'm done with Prepar3d.

[Capt_Cronic]

I wont miss LM tech support either, thats for sure.

[OldAirmail]

Well, I learned one lesson today.

DONT GO ON THE ORBX FORUMS AND CRITICIZE THE NEWEST EDITION OF THEIR BIGGEST SPONSOR!




I posted essentially what I said here and the post got locked down in a little over 30 minutes.

None other than the head honcho jumped in to criticize the post.

Whether or not I see a problem with saying what's above, he certainly did.

I think that it was the reference to "Microsoft Flight" that did it.

[SpaceHippy1975]

I agree OldAirmail, looking at what you've found out, I can see no point in changing over to v3 myself!

It's a shame really, the scope of improvements that have been made doesn't justify paying out the full amount. Why not do an upgrade deal for the next version if you had v2.5? TBH they could've bought out an incremental patch.

I really was hoping they'd fix the annoying bugbears such as;

Being able to access the various crucial settings such as the scenery library, display, general, sound & controls. To be able to make changes to them without having to start a flight before hand - Why?! This was in FSX for crying out loud!

Going straight back to the default Langley AFB/F-22 Raptor scenario whenever I accidentally have a "hard landing/crash" - I know you can set up & save a scenario but I'm the kinda guy that changes things around on a whim, it's a pain & again FSX had this too!

Have these things been addressed?

As for shooting you down, don't they allow for constructive criticism on the other forum? That's why I like it here, no highly strung paranoid beings waiting to bite your head off! Just helpful, constructive comments & opinions!

[OldAirmail]

I think the real complaint is that there isn't much in version 3 for the average user, and people were hoping for a whole lot more. Sometimes very unrealistically.

And the head guy at Orbx admitted it himself.

This is from my post on the 18th of September.

Another SOLID hint about the upcoming release of Prepar3d V3.x.

This time from the Orbx site.

A huge concern I have for P3D V3

"We are testing V3 at present and have yet to make any formal announcement about whether we'll charge for V3 installers. My original comments were made well before V3 went to beta and was mostly based on the new version being a major architectural change. It's not, being more like a v2.6 truth be told."

Interesting times.

Still, if they do give me some hope on Wednesday I might buy it.

After all V2.1.9 was horrible. Later they fixed the major problems.

[Jetranger]

Airmail , don't feel lonely - I got kicked out of ORBX 3 years ago, when I suggested that they need a better way to accurately describe , some of their products, right up front.

They use to advertise airport scenery ,, but no where in the description, below a particular airport, did it say a user needed FTX Global or FTX North America to make it work ????? I almost purchased 1 airport NOT knowing for sure, and thought I'd ask on their forums , and if that was the case, I stated it be nice to know whats needed before hand , NOT purchase an airport then find out a user also needs yet another product , more expensive to make it work properly at like $44.95 back then 3 yrs. ago.

Then I see several months later they started to put that disclaimer below most of their products,

To this day I still am Banned and blocked from their ORBX web site for pointing out the obvious,,,

They have a worse attitude and mentality then those Jugheads over at - that other well known Sim site, need I say more !

To many Jugheads on Ego Trips ready to shoot Flight Simmers down for any reason what so ever to protect what payware companies out deceiving consumers and attempting to get by with it - quite bit that goin on anymore !

I should of went ahead and purchased it, took a screen shot of their web site saved it and then Filed a consumer complaint with my States Attorney Generals office let them go after them !

But their down in Australia, and can pretty much get by with whatever they want, they may have realized to stay in business, and sell their products, they'd better start being nice and more Information as to their products before hand.

I read where other Flight Sim users were getting pissed to, about NOT knowing before hand that they'd need another product to make some sceneries work - that was back 3 years ago, couldn't tell if anything changed since , I rarely visit their ORBX / FTX Site, I'd rather purchase from the airport developer themselves if possible !

Bannned / Blocked for Life I guess I've lost sooooooooo much sleep over it, I now crash into every ATC control tower out there, from lack of Sleeeeepppppppp !!!!

[G.K.]

Like it or not LM are an arms manufacturer defence contractor, they deal with corporations and governments.......it's a very hard nosed business. Much of what they manufacture is designed to kill other humans. The flight sim community who only sim are not it's target customer. I suspect the likes of us are tolerated rather than encouraged........it has always been this way.

I have 2.5, I'm happy with it. I don't suffer OOM's. The ORBX stuff looks good on my machine.....Result.

LM were never on my Christmas card list.

[Fozzer]

I remember when LM, P3D was first advertised for sale, it stated that it was particularly aimed at the sensible, Professional Brigade, rather than we; "Duke Nuke'em 3D" , shoot-'em up, Computer Gamers/Geeks...(like me!)... ... ...!

Like G.K says, I suspect that LM just "put-up" with the likes of us!... ...!

Paul....My FSX isn't broken!....or my FS 2004.... ...!

[OldAirmail]

Oh, they don't just put up with us.

We're an important part of their development program. WE are the beta testers.

Oh yeah. We also pay them to be permitted to do it.

Imagine if they sent Prepar3d V2.1.9 off to one of the armies or navies? That one was pure doggy poop.



Peace is fine, but it doesn't stop someone like North Korea's Kim Jong Un from going into South Korea.

ISIS is a local Mid East problem, for now.

The list can go on, but hopefully I won't have to.

So, no. I have no problem with Lockheed Martin per se.

That's not to say that I don't have specific problems with certain LM individuals.



If LM comes up with a good enough reason to buy Prepar3d V3, I would. But not on a long list of bug fixes.

John Venema was right:

Another SOLID hint about the upcoming release of Prepar3d V3.x.

This time from the Orbx site.

A huge concern I have for P3D V3

"We are testing V3 at present and have yet to make any formal announcement about whether we'll charge for V3 installers. My original comments were made well before V3 went to beta and was mostly based on the new version being a major architectural change. It's not, being more like a v2.6 truth be told."

...

Just a small update. John Venema now thinks that Prepar3d V3 is a great piece of software.

[G.K.]

Oh, they don't just put up with us.

We're an important part of their development program. WE are the beta testers.

Oh yeah. We also pay them to be permitted to do it.

Imagine if they sent Prepar3d V2.1.9 off to one of the armies or navies? That one was pure doggy poop.



Peace is fine, but it doesn't stop someone like North Korea's Kim Jong Un from going into South Korea.

ISIS is a local Mid East problem, for now.

The list can go on, but hopefully I won't have to.

So, no. I have no problem with Lockheed Martin per se.

That's not to say that I don't have specific problems with certain LM individuals.



If LM comes up with a good enough reason to buy Prepar3d V3, I would. But not on a long list of bug fixes.

John Venema was right:

Another SOLID hint about the upcoming release of Prepar3d V3.x.

This time from the Orbx site.

A huge concern I have for P3D V3

"We are testing V3 at present and have yet to make any formal announcement about whether we'll charge for V3 installers. My original comments were made well before V3 went to beta and was mostly based on the new version being a major architectural change. It's not, being more like a v2.6 truth be told."

...

Just a small update. John Venema now thinks that Prepar3d V3 is a great piece of software.

Absolutely.

[Daube]

Oh, they don't just put up with us.

We're an important part of their development program. WE are the beta testers.

In fact, no, we're not.
Keep in mind that from a legal point of view, we are not even supposed to use that simulator.
LM doesn't really give a piece of fertilizer about us. Their main income is generated by the real professional users who buy expensive licences, sometimes several at a time. These are the "relevant" customers for them.

A professional simulation owner doesn't really care about the VAS/OOM problems because in their nice B-777 / A-380 hydraulic cabin simulator, the graphic settings are set to extrememly low graphic levels. However, the fixes about the popup panels or the ESC key was major for them, because they don't really use the simulator as we do.

I can understand the current politic of LM regarding their updates, although it makes me as frustrated as you. After thinking about it, I also think this is a 2.6, not a 3.0.
And speaking of legal stull, isn't there a law that defines how the software version numbers are supposed to be incremented ? Or is it just unofficial ?

[OldAirmail]

Thank you, Daube. It's always a pleasure to have you here. One voice of clarity in the bedlam.


Yes, I was being facetious. For the most part.

But there was a small amount of truth in the statement about our being beta testers.


On the one hand, the thousands of people installing, and using, Prepar3d will point out problem areas that their people would have problems discovering.

On the other hand, I used to install security software. Long before I would get there, the customer would have a list of requirements for the targeted computer(s).

We did not want any variation from those requirements. But in reality we were often given substandard computers for the installation.

When that happened, the customer either gave us a complying computer on the spot, or we would return when they did have a compliant computer.



"A professional simulation owner doesn't really care about..."

In the strictest definition, I'm sure that Prepar3d is "professional software". But in reality, I think that it's an ongoing R&D project that could lead to an exceptional training tool far beyond a flight simulator.

An example of this type of crossover software was the game DOOM.

The US military tried setting up real life buildings inside of the game for individual training. Afterwards the individuals were formed into real teams and run through a physical version of building to evaluate the effectiveness of game time training.


I never did hear of the end results, although speculation leads me to two conclusions:

1) it would take too much programming to rapidly set up an in-game location for quickly needed "real life" training, such as a hostage release raid (remember the Iran hostage crisis or Operation Entebbe?).

And 2) even as crude as DOOM was, I'm willing to bet that it would have proven some usefulness for situational training.



"I can understand the current politic of LM regarding their updates...."

"And speaking of legal stull, isn't there a law that defines how the software version numbers are supposed to be incremented ? Or is it just unofficial ?"

I've been in a couple of situations where "higher ups" wanted us to meet unreasonable timelines. This V3.x feels like that to me; "get it done or get replaced by someone who can".

Nothing proves progress like a new version number.

[pete]

I would be concerned if people whine too much LM may withdraw the 'Academic' version - so anyone will have to pay $4** - thereby the only users will be professional
As for income - the entire income from P3D must be totally irrelevant for LM. It's just an entry ticket system.

But beta testing -- I agree with that. It is a (hopefully) never ending quest to achieve a realistic portable computer flight simulation ...

[hjsmuc]

Nice thread. I am currently risking being banned on AVSIM as I have asked for a list of PROVEN compatible add-ons. Some guys are getting too edgy these days.
PS: To be fair, I had an open conversation with one of the moderators and we sorted it out. Just wondering why everybody is so nervous as this business is most likely not about the big buck.

[OldAirmail]

I would be concerned if people whine too much LM may withdraw the 'Academic' version - so anyone will have to pay $4** - thereby the only users will be professional
As for income - the entire income from P3D must be totally irrelevant for LM. It's just an entry ticket system.

But beta testing -- I agree with that. It is a (hopefully) never ending quest to achieve a realistic portable computer flight simulation ...

One thing that many would notice when visiting the Prepar3d Forum are the obviously "gamer" posts. You'll actually see questions asked about the Prepar3d flight sim "game" and what kind of computer they should get.

The number of posts with people complaining about how they shouldn't be charged for one reason or another was also quite large. Many of those were locked, or simply disappeared. (And no. I can neither confirm or deny that the person who handled Hillary Clinton's email server is now in charge of the LM Prepar3d forum servers )


I'd have to say that at this point LM isn't trying very hard to limit Prepar3d to students enrolled in a structured class. Quite the opposite perhaps.

Reading the EULA it looks like the only thing that you can't use the Prepar3d Academic License for is to assist you in learning to fly.

14.13 "Academic Education" means education programs for elementary through undergraduate students in fundamental academic disciplines such as science, technology, engineering and math, including history and social sciences related thereto, but NOT in connection with graduate students, professional training or certification of any kind, including, but not limited to, military training, emergency responder training, commercial flight training, private pilot training, air traffic control training, airport ground control/logistics training, driver training or nautical training.

Will they withdraw the Academic version? Possibly.

I don't believe, however, that they will prevent you from using the last version that you bought.

I do think that the "non-academic" use by so many people gives the Prepar3d team a wide testing base (beta testers if you will). I also think that without that group of users, there wouldn't be much add-on development going on.