What's the verdict?

Prepar3D - Lockheed Martin has taken the FSX platform into a new level aimed at the professional.

What are you thoughts on P3D

Got it and thought the improvements over FSX were good value
Got it and thought the improvements over FSX were middling value
Got it and thought the improvements over FSX were poor value
Got it but can't make my mind up until I have a better PC
Not got it but want it
Not got it and don't want it at the moment
 
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What's the verdict?

Postby G.K. » Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:22 am

....I hope I've set this post up right, not done a poll before.

Purely subjective opinions wanted so that I can make my mind up. I know the level of satisfaction will be somewhat dependant on PC specs (so post them here) .....was the $50 odd worth the investment for you.


My PC:
i5 proc
asus z87 mobo
GT 640 2 gig
8 gig ram

No one but me can say how much I'll enjoy it if I do get it but should I wait until I've got an i7 or better graphic card? Opinions are fine.

....also what are the download times?
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Re: What's the verdict?

Postby E-Buzz » Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:16 am

Hi All,
I understand that Prepar3D is the "successor" to FSX and hopefully be able to take advantage of new technology for an even nicer flight sim experience.
But....
I will not purchase any of the current licenses that are being offered due to this statement on the website:

"As provided in our End User License Agreement, the Prepar3D application is not to be used, offered, sold or distributed through markets or channels for use as a personal/consumer entertainment product."

I do not qualify for any of the licenses, and I wonder if there would be any tech support from LM for those of us who purchase the program having violated the EULA? :naughty:
And, how would this affect anyone who makes, sells, and distributes addons? Would they offer tech support for those who do not qualify for a license?

Please don't get me wrong - I would absolutely love to move to P3d when it's finished, but that EULA...
If they grant entertainment licenses, I would scoop the program up in a second.

Thoughts?

If all of this has been talked about/addressed, please, please enlighten me! :pray:
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Re: What's the verdict?

Postby G.K. » Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:56 am

It's been discussed before but no reason not to discuss it again.....it keeps the boards busy.

My thoughts:


ENTERTAINMENT
noun
[mass noun]
1The action of providing or being provided with amusement or enjoyment:
‘everyone just sits in front of the television for entertainment’

1.1 [count noun] An event, performance, or activity designed to entertain others:
‘a theatrical entertainment’

From the eula perspective my argument for buying it would be:
Def 1 LM clearly state that it is not provided as entertainment.......Also, every activity ever undertaken by mankind has probably been enjoyed by somebody and hated by others. There is no way in law to dictate or decide what is or isn't enjoyable or entertaining........I hate cycling others enjoy it. Many folk enjoy their work, (although perhaps fewer these days). P3D also educates.

Def 1.1 LM didn't rehash it with a design criteria that included entertainment....
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Re: What's the verdict?

Postby ftldave » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:54 am

I don't think the survey is working properly. Clicking on View Results after I voted got nothing, and I tried two different browsers.

P3D is never going to be any kind of replacement for FSX as long as it has the No Entertainment license restriction. Wink-Wink-Nudge-Nudge can only go so far.

I know I don't qualify for P3D licensing and, besides, my FSX runs very well.
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Re: What's the verdict?

Postby G.K. » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:31 pm

Your right, it's not working......I don't think I did anything wrong but I could be wrong. Ah well.
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Re: What's the verdict?

Postby Capt_Cronic » Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:32 pm

I use it for educational / traing purposes
in case anarchy breaks out,
I can grab the nearest aircraft and get the H#!! out of dodge :lol:

p3d v1.4 is my prefered sim, with some fine tuning, it works better than fsx (for me anyway)
p3d v2.1 does not support some of my payware aircraft yet and it's still buggy.
but it does have some nice shadow effects.
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Re: What's the verdict?

Postby OldAirmail » Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:47 pm

If anyone's happy with FSX there probably no strong reason to switch.

Just in the couple of years that I've been using FSX, I've seen huge improvements.

And THAT is very important, because after the total fiasco with Microsoft Flight, no Microsoft exec will be willing to propose FS 11


You'll find plenty of people on the internet saying how much better Prepar3d is, and that they'd NEVER EVER go back to FSX.

I do think that it's better, but not as much as some seem to think. As time goes by it WILL become far, far better, though.


So should you buy it?

READ their EULA.

Unlike so many companies, the Lockheed Martins' EULA is very clear and simple.

They make no bones about it not being sold/used for entertainment. Period.

On the other hand the EULA doesn't define the educational requirements.


Outside of the EULA, yes, they do define how they would like it to be used. BUT the EULA is the legal part of that whole deal.

SO
* You can't buy it for entertainment use.
* To use it for actually training students, you need the edition sanctioned for that purpose, the Professional License.



What does LM have to say that might help you decide if Prepar3d can be used by you?

Can Prepar3D be used at home?

Prepar3D can be used in any location. Where you intend to use Prepar3D is not a consideration in the licensing EULAs; it only matters how the software will be used. As specified in the EULAs, Prepar3D can be used for purposes other than personal/consumer entertainment.

On this page LM says;
"Lockheed Martin Prepar3D can be used for educational curricula, after school programs, summer camps and at home."


On their comparison license chart it says that the Academic License can be used for "K-12 After School Programs". That's Kindergarten to 12th grade (ideally, that would mean pre-school followed by 12 years of schooling over here).

Kindergarten???? Non-entertainment????

I don't think that any kindergarteners could possibly study aeronautics without haveing a LOT of entertainment.

Which begs the question - Can something be educational AND fun/entertaining?

Personally, I think that the answer is self evident.



So if it seems to me (admittedly not a lawyer), that if the EULA does not require a formal educational setting, AND you can use Prepar3d to learn something, then go ahead and buy it.

But if your intention is to ONLY have fun while learning absolutely nothing, then do not buy it.


If you still have doubts about your ability to learn something from Prepar3d, or the legality of teaching yourself something at home, PLEASE! seek professional help.

As I said - I'm not a lawyer Nor am I a psychologist capable of judging your learning abilities.


I might as well throw this in - DO NOT INSTALL PREPAR3D ON YOUR WORK COMPUTER, unless teaching flight is your job, of course.




I do use it to learn. And I have a good time learning. And if I survive my new job, I hope to get into a cockpit this summer.

But even if I never make into a cockpit, I'll still have learned something.
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Image
. . . . . .Any time, any plane, any weather.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . Prepar3d V4
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Re: What's the verdict?

Postby Daube » Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:27 am

These discussions about licences are endless, and NOBODY knows the real answer. No matter how we read these lines, there will ALWAYS be a real lawyer that will read them differently.
That's why these discussions have been banned from most forums, including P3D official forums.

The current verdict about P3D v2 is quite simple: it has MUCH better performance than FSX but it's still full of bugs and instable.
The 2.2 patch might solve most of the problems, because they drastically improved the memory management for autogen (which was the main source of "out of memory" errors). It also contains, just like 2.1 patch, a lot of bug fixes and other optimisations for problems that were killing the 2.0.

Yes, some payware addons are not yet compatible with P3D:
- Some of them we don't really care.
- Some others are much more important (PMDG, TacPack, etc...).
- Some of them will become compatible (OrbX etc...)
- Some other will never be compatible (old addons, no more developped etc...)

In the end, with my current computer, FSX works very well and P3D works even better, because in P3D I can fly fast airplanes over very heavy sceneries.
In fact, P3D allows me to fly my military addons properly, and that was hardly possible in FSX (excepted over default scenery, at high altitude...).
In P3D I could fly at more than Mach 1.5 over photoscenery and the ground textures stayed crisp ! In FSX, even with the best tweaks, I can fly past 250 knots over these sceneries...

My only problem at the moment is that P3D does not allow the usage of TacPack, this is a huge step back in the evolution of the plateform.
Other problems are the difficulties to install some addons, especially the Accusim planes which are, for me, the most important addons ever made for FS. But fortunately, difficult doesn't mean impossible, so my Accusim aircraft will end up in my P3D hangar no matter what.
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Re: What's the verdict?

Postby G.K. » Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:13 am

It seems that the best thing to do regarding the EULA is go with your own conscience.

For me P3D is a simulator and not a game. I cannot justify (to my family) the expense of a plane and lessons so a simulator is as far as I can go with the hobby.......My conscience will be clear if and when I buy it.

I'm reminded of an old Religious studies teacher (lol) "steer clear of sex young man, you might enjoy it and become spawn of satan".....

Daube,
Banning the discussion of the EULA on some websites ??? I can see why (perhaps) the P3D forum are being a bit touchy, after all they are responsible for upholding the EULA.........Other websites banning it seems a bit ridiculous to me but hey, each to their own, the web never was a democracy.

Some interesting points you make about addons not working. At The mo I have:
Ultimate Terrain X
GEX
Tongass Fjords
Ultimate traffic II

Do these work with the latest incarnation of P3D?

OldAirmail,
A nice clear post as usual.

Am I happy with FSX?......Not entirely. The visibility layers and clouds sharp outline when merging with terrain irritates. The clear skies approach doesn't satisfy either because in reality there is hardly ever unlimited visibility.

The colours and graphics always seem a bit flat for me, too bright in places with too much colour. The shading and sharp edged shadows are not right.

The water bodies always looks the same and too uniform. No distinction between rivers and oceans.

Autogen popping into existence at random distances.....a big downer for me.

After constantly tweaking my cfg I have reasonable smoothness on FSX but it is still slightly jerky....It could be smoother.

P3D seems to address most of these issues (Perhaps not the water bodies) but it's unstable at the mo, shame. Your comment " As time goes by it WILL become far, far better, though." is a clincher though and thanks for reminding me of that point.

.....sod it, I'm going to get it. I'm not sure how much it is in £s but it's going to be cheaper than a night out on the town. A pint of beer costs £4.00 + in some places now......what is the world coming to ???..... P3D doesn't bugger your liver up either.

A suggestion to LM for a promotional catch phrase:

Love your Liver, get P3D now. :D
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Re: What's the verdict?

Postby Fozzer » Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:50 am

"I'm reminded of an old Religious studies teacher (lol) "steer clear of sex young man, you might enjoy it and become spawn of satan"....."..... :shock: ...!

Been there...done it...got the Tee-Shirt(s), G.K..... :dance: ...!

Paul...Its very warm down here!.... :? ...!

.... :lol: ... :lol: ...!
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Re: What's the verdict?

Postby E-Buzz » Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:04 am

OldAirmail -

Dang! Your logic and argument, to me, makes a lot of sense! You have put me a bit closer towards taking the P3D plunge.

But my other question remains: Will those who, as deemed by LM (or their lawyers), bought the software but are not "qualified" due to the EULA, receive tech support? (Although, to be honest, I consider these forums as tech support for FSX...)

I would argue along the lines of G.K. that P3D is a simulator, not a game. I've always wanted to learn how to fly an aircraft, but it's not possible for me due to various reasons and this simulator would be the closest thing. <<v
So, I guess that might qualify for purchasing a license under EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES?
This is going to be a difficult decision for me after I upgrade my computer... :violin:
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Re: What's the verdict?

Postby Daube » Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:17 am

No idea about the tech support. But your remark about the real tech support coming from the FS forums is quite valid.
In any case, it can't be worse than FSX.

Concerning the products written above, I do not know if they work in P3D v2 since I do not own them. The main problems usually come from the installation program of these addons, not from the addon themselves.
Ultimate Traffic, if I'm not confusing with another addon, is using a special program to handle the AI in flight, right ? In that case, it might not work.
However, as an alternative, I had absolutely no problems moving the ICE AI Traffic files to P3D.

Ultimate terrain is just a mesh, isn't it ? Then it should work without problems.
Pacific Fjords, like any OrbX product, will work with P3D once its installer is updated. No idea if this happened already...
Tongass Fjords, I don't know at all. It's currently installed in my FSX, but I didn't try to transfer it to my P3D yet... I will try once FSX is uninstalled from my computer.
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Re: What's the verdict?

Postby Capt_Cronic » Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:50 am

tech support is not a problem.
if you purchased it, they support it no questions asked (no reason to ask).

imho, everyone is getting all bent out of shape over the eula for nothing.
buy it and enjoy learning.
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Re: What's the verdict?

Postby G.K. » Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:53 am

Capt_Cronic wrote:tech support is not a problem.
if you purchased it, they support it no questions asked (no reason to ask).

imho, everyone is getting all bent out of shape over the eula for nothing.
buy it and enjoy learning.



Yup.

....also, the more they sell the more development it'll get.

It's our duty to buy and support this product otherwise flight simming isn't going anywhere fast.....So Gentlemen, shoulders back, chest out, stomach in (Fozzer), look smart and do your duty. ;)
Last edited by G.K. on Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What's the verdict?

Postby Bass » Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:05 am

G.K. wrote:
Capt_Cronic wrote:tech support is not a problem.
if you purchased it, they support it no questions asked (no reason to ask).

imho, everyone is getting all bent out of shape over the eula for nothing.
buy it and enjoy learning.



Yup.

....also, the more they sell the more development it'll get.


Are you saying, we need to buy it, to get the bugs solted out faster :think:
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