cfs3 or PF

The latest Air Battle game from Microsoft! Running on an entirely new platform, CFS3 is raising it's fair share of problems & opinions - Good & Bad!

Re: cfs3 or PF

Postby Oleg_Maddox » Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:36 am

Part 2


Ground handling in IL-2 is also better than in CFS physics for that case. We just were comparing here yersterday.  And ground handling is changed together with new FM modules that we will release :):):):) Would be very good to compare...

As for the FW200 screen shot posted above - looks good with more polygons, but precise of the model and texture - really isn't to what should be or better to say to what is possible to make with such great amount of polygons that used for this model....
In Il-2 series FW200 is third party made aircraft. So comparison with our own can't be taken in account. However in Il-2 series it is more close to real thing even in painting color.

I have no time to comment all shots you posted, but I think would be good to post in comparison in both cases in best graphics settings and in the same perspective.
Say if you post the CFS3 city shot, then compare with our Leningrad or Berlin for example.

I would comment only P-38 shot. Yes generally your lightnig screen shot of aircraft looks better... But.... if to look with precise we may found incorrect nose cowlings, incorrect rear part of fuselage in the place of the edge of the wing.... etc... Yes it has more polygons, but it isn't precise... with such amount of polygons is possible to pay attention to such really important details...and at least - use right blueprints (or read them well).

Really I like that we have competition, because at least such thing press me to go ahead and increase the quality and precise in the next sim series that will be based on BoB engine - first release is BoB, then we will go around the whole WWII again. BoB will be just the first in the line of series.
There we will deliver more features to third party developers, however we will still keep precise FM programming for ourselves. And mainly because of one important thing: to escape the cheating online.

The is one area where I don't plan any competition - it is civil aircraft simulation. There are MS stand alone and this is not for me... However in BoB will be bonuses - the planes sertified by real avation companies and pilots that fly it now. These planes are modern. So you will be able to ask the real pilot who fly it now youself...  This will be a sample what we are program and you make you own opinion how is precise the FM tunings for the other WWII time aircraft of BoB that will be present there. Clever users will understand what we offer and did really very quick.

Sorry for my post here and sorry for my English.

PS. Look for I-185 model in FB+AEP+PF.  Then just imagine how will looks all BoB models.  I-185 was a test for the new technologies. It is still the same amount of polygons as in Il-2 series... But looks very good inside and ourtside.  Now imagine that twe increase polygon count, sizes of textures and then we anyway will keep all the features of skin , squad logos, pilot faces, etc transfer online between the players. Such good technology I think don't have even most shooters... and we were peoneers in that thing many years ago.
And think about damage model. In Il-2 series we model just part of internal structure (but really great, that has no competitors in the sims!) - in BoB engine we simply use real manufacture blueprints that to recreate in 3D and in physics the full internal construction of aircraft. Such modeling we will use for the structural damage modeling with cmputation of the forces on almost each longeron or other details (sorry not enough English words that to tell it exactly)

PS2. Yes some ground models are better in CFS3 than in original IL-2 of 2001 year release...  But you can't unit CFS+CFS2+CFS3 as the full one product isn't it?
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Re: cfs3 or PF

Postby Oleg_Maddox » Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:48 am

[quote]

Y'all might want to read this part again:

""The content of the released patch 304 already had a 'good to go' when the decision not to do additional patches & add-ons beyond it was made
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Re: cfs3 or PF

Postby Oleg_Maddox » Tue Mar 01, 2005 6:37 am

[quote]Well I would like to put my two cents worth in this though I am new here.
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Re: cfs3 or PF

Postby Oleg_Maddox » Tue Mar 01, 2005 6:38 am

Part 2 of above posted

Hi alt:..... Of course it will looks so if you fly above the limit of 3D engine that has "service ceiling" 10 km. And we told you - becasue it was designed for the Russian front and there was no needs in altitudes more than 5-6 km...
Clouds... At least they are not looks like drawn sprites ....  Yes in CFS3 are in same way better, but in some way really worse.  And If you can't set them on different altitudes, that doesn't measn that it isn't - look in FMB for settings for example.
- the differences in low and hi alt behavior planes is really great. I think you simply don't use advantages of the planes on different altitudes.  I even sure.  The tactic on high altitude is way diferent than on low... and you can't put there dogfight methods... You may ask pilots that on high altitude you need to control aircraft way more gentel than on the low due to low air dencity (and as higher - more) - you should always to keep there higher speed.
Forest - this technology already copied a lot of companies...  Becasue this gives a great FPS win.  I don't think it is disadvantage...
- way to easy FM.... Yes in some sims they are so hard that I would never fluy a real aircraft if they will fly bythis way.... It tell you the real pilot.  
109s?  Sorry, but the tests of 109s real and modelled is way more colse to reality then you even thing.... One was posting WWII time trial for the turn on the 6,000 meters with input in turnm speed 600 km/h.... He was impressed when he got less then 2% differences in the sim.
Seems doesn't means you correct opinion. Only real comparison with test make "seems" the truth or not.
Ground snipers.... - use right tactic, but don't go in front of it all the time... In reality you will be also shot down in that case... Even in instruction for the crew of tanks (Tiger, Panther, T-34, etc )is written how to shot down such  aircraft (of course the speed is about low altitude attack.
Yak-3 was good Spitfire is also good... But Zero would be better if they all will go on the same speed maneuver. Please take it in account.  I think my guys flying in the Zero online with you in maneverable dogfight will shot you down all the times in Yak-3 or in Spitfire if you speak such things..
-FM for JUST SOME planes change and not with each patch
-torque vanishes once in the air - wrong. it is present all the time. However especially was decreased before other things was solved. wait a bit.
- Hih speed flights maneuverability - according the charts. Better to test for you more precise...
-vast majority of Russian planes seem to be uber planes.... then why on all chapionships of europe and world of Il-2 series were won on the Bf-109s and by Russian players? They were able to select Yaks and La-7...



I should agree with following:

Campaigns missed for the PF. But it wasn't in plan.  Some will be added in add-ons.
AI doing sometime not so good maneuvers.. Yes. Unless you can repeat them. - they use the same FM as you.... However with new FM they will be not able to make such things (you too)... simply becasue it will be impossible (But I can do so great things with FM and AI of CFS3.....:):):):))
- freezes as much as CFS 3  - only on ATI cards. But it is their drievrs bugs that are confirmed by them (partially on their site you may read it).  Other frezzes (pauses) - only without optimal settings for you PC.
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Re: cfs3 or PF

Postby Theis » Tue Mar 01, 2005 7:01 am

Welcome to the madness oleg! ;D
cool that you are here
i play IL2FB+AEP+PF and really enjoys it :)
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Re: cfs3 or PF

Postby AvHistory » Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:38 am


You may buy golden pack Forgotten Battles + Ace Expansion pack for the lower price and install there your PF - you will get over 220 aircraft in total (soon even more in free add-ons)


True but in order to get those 220 aircraft (counting numerations versions of the 109 etc as separate aircraft) a majority of your loyal followers have had to buy IL2, Forgotten Battles, Aces Expansion Pack & Pacific Fighters at full price.

EA used the same marketing strategy with US Navy Fighters reselling the game many times with some new planes & maps each time, along with a few "gold" issues when things got slow.

The new guys who have just shown up & are going gold are the ones getting the deal.



Please don't tell people that you don't know!
Or you do it especially?
Do you know how you will looks when all that you told right now here will be absolutely other, beginning from 3.05?

Make fair job.
If you dislike the PF (and the merged install) - play CFS3 or CFS2....But print fair words when you tell other people about something.


No Problem,
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Re: cfs3 or PF

Postby Oleg_Maddox » Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:24 pm

[quote]

No Problem,
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Re: cfs3 or PF

Postby Fly2e » Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:37 pm

HI

 ;D

Dave
COMING SOON!
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Re: cfs3 or PF

Postby Chuck_Older » Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:41 pm

Off topic-

Bearcat- that is one sweet skin! Do you get any of the Aviation catalogs for models, memoribilia, etc? They sell a great red-tail you may be interested in. Do you still have my e-mail?

PM me at the Ubi boards and I'll give it to you if you don't







Hiya, Oleg :)
You don't think I'd shoot down one of OURS, do ya?!
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Re: cfs3 or PF

Postby AvHistory » Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:59 pm

[quote]

Did I promised it?
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Re: cfs3 or PF

Postby Woodlouse2002 » Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:34 pm

With reference to the series of screenshots of PF posted there...

In all but one of the cockpit shots the gunsight is trying to slide off the edge of the reflector glass. Why? How is that supposed to happen on a reflector gunsight? I realise it does on a gyro gunsight because thats what they're made to do but a fixed reflector gunsight should not and wouldn't not float about like that. How are you supposed to shoot straight when your crosshair is migrating off the gunsight and across your windsheild?

Secondly, in screenshots of ships in PF I notice that the ships have perfect reflections. "Thats pretty" I thought when first noticing. Then I thought "that's not right. You only get reflections like that in water thats as smooth as glass and that water has not only got waves, but also has a battleship churning it up." For me that really ruined the look of the sim.

I personally gave up on the IL2 sims after buying the first one to see what all the fuss was about. After a couple of weeks I was bored of it and started up CFS2 again. After CFS3 came out I switched to that and have never thought to waste my money on a sim I will only play for a few weeks. After all, CFS3 has the bonus that to get new aircraft you don't have to spend
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Re: cfs3 or PF

Postby eeeee » Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:19 pm

I personally gave up on the IL2 sims after buying the first one to see what all the fuss was about. After a couple of weeks I was bored of it and started up CFS2 again.


Maybe in two weeks u should have realized Ctrl+F1 centers your gunshight...

 
In all but one of the cockpit shots the gunsight is trying to slide off the edge of the reflector glass. Why? How is that supposed to happen on a reflector gunsight? I realise it does on a gyro gunsight because thats what they're made to do but a fixed reflector gunsight should not and wouldn't not float about like that. How are you supposed to shoot straight when your crosshair is migrating off the gunsight and across your windsheild?



Really shows how in depth was your testing and how reliable your opinion... ;D ;D ;D
eeeee
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Re: cfs3 or PF

Postby farmerdave » Tue Mar 01, 2005 6:25 pm

You like open architecture - its up to you... But most would like to have fair gameplay online wthut cheating. and with all the support of MS sim commumnity this problem can't be solved..... isn't it?


You can't cheat in CFS3 multiplayer, any difference between your aircraft and the host's will result in a mismatch, which prevents you from entering a game.
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Re: cfs3 or PF

Postby Plumps » Tue Mar 01, 2005 7:13 pm

With reference to the series of screenshots of PF posted there...

In all but one of the cockpit shots the gunsight is trying to slide off the edge of the reflector glass. Why? How is that supposed to happen on a reflector gunsight? I realise it does on a gyro gunsight because thats what they're made to do but a fixed reflector gunsight should not and wouldn't not float about like that. How are you supposed to shoot straight when your crosshair is migrating off the gunsight and across your windsheild?

There's a very good thread at the UbiZoo ;) that will show you how a reflective gunsight really works:
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/ubb.x?q=Y&a=t ... 062362&p=1
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Re: cfs3 or PF

Postby Art-J » Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:37 pm

With reference to the series of screenshots of PF posted there...

In all but one of the cockpit shots the gunsight is trying to slide off the edge of the reflector glass. Why? How is that supposed to happen on a reflector gunsight? I realise it does on a gyro gunsight because thats what they're made to do but a fixed reflector gunsight should not and wouldn't not float about like that. How are you supposed to shoot straight when your crosshair is migrating off the gunsight and across your windsheild?


Hello there. As a CFS2 & Il-2 series fan, I don't feel like being the right person to put some more fire on CFS3 vs. PF discussion, so, as a little off-topic, I'll only notice I can't agree with Your "sliding gunsight issue" report. Fixed reflector gunsight crosshair is designed to move a little with pilots eyes, so that he doesn't loose the precise aim when his head moves under G-forces (e.g. deflection shooting during turn) - imagine facing the same situation with telescopic or simple iron sight... Gyro sight was next evolution stage, since it moved the crosshair to compensate both: pilot's head movement and target movement.

And for a little proof: here's how a typical WWII reflective gunsight works on the example of restored and fully operational Revi unit:
http://rapidshare.de/files/744395/revi.AVI.html
(for guys unfamiliar with rapidshare: hit the link, go down the page, hit the "free" download option, wait a few seconds, get the file)

The crosshair movement didn't need to be present in CFS1 & 2, because G-forces head movement (I mean  its x,y,z coordinates movement, not looking around) was not modelled in them, I don't know wether it is in CFS3. It is present in Il-2 series, so it's a good thing that crosshair in this game is not just "painted" on sight glass ;)

Regards.
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