PT 17 or PT 13 Stearman

[burninator]

Does anyone know of a decent PT-17 or PT-13 stearman that I can fly in CFS 2.  I would also love a grumman goose (not the widgeon).

Thanks.

[jimski]

I haven't tried them yet but there are such planes in the fs2002 Vintage section. They might work in cfs2. I am going to download one and try it myself. I have flown cfs2 models in fs2002 and they work except for the weapons.

By the way, one "problem" with cfs2 is that flying in the US is not too good because that part of the world is not modeled well. I don't know if there is an update for that or not. Usually if I am flying in that part of the world I do it in fs2002. A couple of times I have ferried from the US by starting in fs2002 and switching to cfs2 once in a war zone.

Jimski

[burninator]

OK, I saw those and also one in the FS2000 vintage section.  Does anyone know how/how easy it is to set up the files to be used with CFS?

[jimski]

I spoke too soon. Although cfs2 planes will work in fs2002 I just found out that fs2002 planes won't work in cfs2. I tried several. I am going to try the fs2000 pt-13 in csf2 next.

Jimski

[jimski]

I got both the fs2000 pt-13 and the fs2002 "dingoIV" Stearmen working in CFS2 but both required a "sound transplant" since their sounds were aliased to the Cessna which is not in the usual CFS2 files. The dingoIV has a serious performance problem that might be solved by a power multiplier but the pt-13 flew quite well. It might be worth trying some of the other fs2002 Stearmen.

There is a pretty good essay on this site at http://www.simviation.com/fs_compatibility.htm which describes the problem. In short "some" fs2002 planes will work in cfs2 and "most" fs2000 planes will work. The sound file problem appears to be the main since the model won't even appear in the plane list until it is compatible. That help page tells you how to fix it.

Try it. Trying different aircraft is one of the enjoyable parts of this game.

Jimski

[burninator]

cool.  

I'll try the stearman.  I also found the Mike Stone Grumman Goose that is for FS 2000, so hopefully that will work too.

[burninator]

I couldn't get either of the stearmans to work from the FS 2000 vintage section.  The model wouldn't even show up when i went to free flight.  Am I missing something?

[jimski]

I would give 10 to 1 odds that the problem is in the sound file. Neither of the two I downloaded would appear in the freeflight list until I fixed the sound problem. Find the "aircraft" folder in your cfs2 folder. Then look for the Stearman folder you want to work with. You should see four folders inside that one and one will be "sound" with a "sound" file inside. Look at that file with notepad or something. Almost guaranteed it says something like "alias cessna 172" which means it uses the same sound files as the cessna which is stock in fs2000 and fs2002, etc. But it is not a stock aircraft in cfs2 so your machine never finds it and won't list your Stearman as a plane. The simple fix is to change that sound file to alias something that is a stock csf2 plane, say the zero. I don't have the exact wording here because I never take my game computer on the internet. If you study the "compatibility" essay I am pretty sure it talks about this because it seems to be the most common reason for failure.

Let me know if you make any progress. I can look up the exact wording if needed. Once you learn to manipulate the files you can really customize things.

Jimski

[jimski]

You can read more detailed stuff about the sound fix at http://www.simviation.com/lair/aliasing1.htm

Jimski

[burninator]

OK, I got the stearman to work, but it just noses over if i start free flight on a runway.

[jimski]

At first I thought your brakes were engaged but the fact that you could fly it made me think different.

Of the two I tried, the "dingoIV" pt17 barely flew but the fs2000 pt13 flew very well once I fixed the sound problem. I did not loop, etc. but take off was brisk and it popped right up to about 100kts and would not go much faster which is maybe quite realistic for this sort of airplane. Exactly hich model are you flying?

Usually you can indeed adjust cg and "flight tune" the model. I have found it is quite common to get very good looking models that don't fly right at all and I suspect that some modelers are mostly interested in the visuals leaving the proof to the student, so to speak.

Jimski

[burninator]

http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/syb.c ... 13ydet.zip

This is the one that worked after I fixed the sound file, but would nose over right away if I tried to ROG, and would not loop or climb well at all.  Overall, I'd say the controls are a bit too sluggish compared to what I've seen at airshows and whatnot.

I also downloaded the David Eckert PT-13 for FS 2002 from flightsim.com.

[jimski]

Let's stick with the pt13ydet.zip plane. Go to its folder and look for the aircraft.cfg file and bring it up on notepad (it is a plain text file). Add to it at the bottom:

[flight_tuning]
cruise_lift_scalar     = 1.0
parasite_drag_scalar   = .5
induced_drag_scalar    = 1.0
elevator_effectiveness = 1.0
aileron_effectiveness  = 2.0
rudder_effectiveness   = 1.0
pitch_stability        = 1.0
roll_stability         = 1.0
yaw_stability          = 1.0
elevator_trim_effectiveness = 1.0
aileron_trim_effectiveness  = 1.0
rudder_trim_effectiveness   = 1.0

[piston_engine]
power_scalar = 1.0

[propeller]
thrust_scalar = 1.0

and save. This is one flight tuning method. As you change the scalars the plane should respond. You will see that I have halved the parasitic drag and doubled the aileron effectiveness to get it to perform as I think it should in cfs2. Before doing this max speed was about 80 mph and now it is about 110 which is closer to spec which I think is about 120. And now it will roll in about 5 seconds, maybe it should roll even faster. I was able to do loops with it. (I will bet any stunt Stearman you see at an airshow is well souped up.)

You can also increase speed by increasing the power_scalar but this model already has takeoff and climb that is believable so its power to weight must be close to correct.

Anyway, the above words can be added to any aircraft.cfg file to fine tune a bit. Most files already have it plus another to fine tune weight and cg. You might try it with that fs2002 model to make the controls more effective.

I was unable to get the dingoIV fs2002 model to fly well at all in cfs2. It is perfect in fs2002.

I don't know what to think about your nose over on take off situation. Mine will not do it if I release brakes and don't push the stick forward too much.

Jimski

[burninator]

I knew it had to be something really simple like that!

[jimski]

When you start in free flight your engine should not be running at all. Then you hit e to start it. Try it with one of the stock aircraft. Then try stopping the engine with the aircraft parked, brakes off, and shutting down the program. Then restart with the PT and see what happens. Sometimes the sims remember the way the program was shut down. If you shut down last time with the engine running wide open and the parking brake on it might start up the next time same way. I think?

Jimski