Simviation Forums

I've been gone a while after a hard drive failure took my password. But I never stopped flying.

Anyway, I have a question of history someone might know the answer to. I downloaded Jim Jacobson's Gibralter scenery and flew around there for a while. I also had downloaded most of the British bombers including the Whitley. Then I decided to "ferry" a Whitley to Gibralter. So my question is "how did the British ferry aircraft from England to Gibralter?" I assume they could not overfly Spain or France. On my flight I went from Warmwell in S England, down off the west coast of France and then off the west coast of Spain and Portugal, then east to Gibralter. Only problem is that the plane would have run out of fuel near Portugal if I had not chosen "unlimited fuel". I think the trip is about a thousand miles.

So I assume such a trip was taken with aux tanks even for the larger aircraft. Smaller planes must have been disassembled and shipped in. The trip from Gibralter to Malta is about as long, with enemy or neutrals on all sides, yes?

Jimski

I believe most where flown in from North Africa or shiped in straight from England. Others like fighters where sometimes flown in from escort carriers. I know Ike was flown in from England before he took over the command of the North Africa Operation Torch. They flew him in a B17 at a very low altitude and low speed straight from England. It was hairy flight to say the list.

This is one great historical question? I will reseach it more for you!


James007

The ferry routes seem to be difficult to find but I will keep looking.

I dug out my old copy of "Famous Bombers of the Second World War" by William Green and looking over the British bombers in it I would say all of them could make the England/Gibraltar trip easily without overflying any land provided they didn't take a full bomb load.

For the Whitley he lists: normal cruising range 1500 miles, range with 3000# bombs 1650 miles, range with aux tanks 2400 miles, range with 7000 # bombs 470 miles.

So it is true that a fully loaded Whitley couldn't get far. The Whitley VII used for ocean patrols had a range of 2300 miles.

Jimski

Very interesting. I found several sources that mention BOAC operating the Whitley V from Gibraltar to Malta. This apparently took 7 hours. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armstrong_Whitworth_Whitley

I also found this in the History of No 24 Squadron RAF which operated an England - Malta shuttle via Gibraltar in Hudsons. I assume they would have used a similar route to other RAF types. [quote]The

Thanks Hagar!

It looks from the Wikipedia essays that the Hudson was only slightly faster than the Whitley but perhaps it was a much more economical and roomy aircraft. The distance from Gibraltar to Malta appears to be close to 1200 miles, as long as the England/Gibraltar trip. By August 42 when th Malta shuttle began North Africa was no longer contested and I suppose you might find a safe place to land there if needed, and you could fly straight over it to Malta.

I am reading now "Rising '44" about the uprising in Warsaw. In one part it states:

"That same day(26 July), Premier Mick left London en route to Moscow via Gibraltar, Cairo, and Teheran. He was not due to arrive in Russia for four or five days." And I am thinking there must have been other stops in between.

I have a copy of Clark Gable's documentary "Combat America" and he follows his group from his training base to England but I think they did it in one big jump from Canada to England, no trouble to a proper B17.

But there was also a ferry route much farther south. I found in "Over The Hump"by William Koenig the route of the Fireball Express. Koenig says:

"Operating under ATC contract, Pan Am crews made a weekly flight to carry the parts in most demand direct from the Air Service Command Depot at Fairfield, Ohio to the Tenth Air Service Command Depot at Agra (India). Flying C-87's (converted B24's) stripped of camouflage paint to give them an extra 5 mph airspeed, the express crews used the Florida-Brazil-West Africa-Sudan route to India, making the round trip in seven days."

I think the B24's based in North Africa used a similar ferry route.

The pieces to the major ferry routes are falling into place.

Jimski

Good job Hagar. What I wrote about the fighter been ferried by carrier applied only to Malta.There where several convoys directed to Malta just to deliver fighter since the Spitfire did not have the range to been flown in from Africa. This convoy whent on a quite adveturers