Massed ETO aircraft

[Staiduk]

Hello, friends.
Someone on another post mentioned he'd really like to see a good BoB campaign; and I must say I would too. So I started building it. Did most of the flowcharting at work last night; the basic plotline, and wrote the first test mission just now.
BUT:
A couple of questions.
First; European Theater aircraft. There are no stock ETO 'planes for CFS2, so I'll have to use addons. My initial thought was to go with all 1%'s from AvHistory.org, but to my knowledge, while great the 1%'s can be framerate heavy from time to time; and I don't want to stick to small formations - I want to be able to replicate Bader's Big Wings. So; a couple of options, as I see it: 1) Go with all 1%'s and hope the framerate's OK for most people, 2)use the stock CFS1 aircraft adjusted accordingly for CFS2 (Haven't tried that yet; don't know how easy it would be), 3) use 3rd-party aircraft from Simviation or other sites.
Which in your experience would be the best way to go? I'm going to test them all; but need advice from others who may be familiar with CFS2 ETO craft. Keeping in mind of course I'll need 5 planes: the Mk1 Hurricane, Mk 1 Spit, Ju87, Ju88, He-111.

2nd problem: In my copy of CFS2, all ETO objects (static and mobile) are prefaced by an asterisk. Question: Does this simply denote ETO scenery, or is it possible that some versions of CFS2 have these objects and others don't? Important to know; I never really had to ask before. I'm going to try to keep ground objects to a relative minimum and use PTO objects whenever possible; but if those ETO objects are only in some versions (which I've seen in other games) there would be a problem.
Thanx!

[Hagar]

Hi Staiduk. I don't get involved with creating the missions themselves but I do have some experience with everything else. I think for the type of missions you have in mind it would be best to stick with the CFS1 defaults for AI aircraft & wingmen. You can use any suitable 3rd party aircraft for the Player aircraft if you wish. Charles Simpson converted the CFS1 defaults for use in CFS2 to save you the bother. Try the Allied & Axis Expansion packs here. http://www.simviation.com/cfs2aircraft1.htm

Doing it this way will be useful if you intend uploading the missions as these aircraft can be downloaded by users who don't have CFS1. They should also perform properly in AI which many 3rd party aircraft don't. The only problem with using separate downloads is that great care must be taken in installing them with their correct folder names. This is the most common cause of all problems with 3rd party missions. I prefer to include all necessary files with the missions/campaign.

I think the CFS1 scenery objects you mention can be used in the missions. The asterisk is used to identify them. I don't think you need worry about different versions of CFS2. There are regional variations but they're all basically the same.

Hope this is some help. Good luck with your mission building.

[Staiduk]

Yep; exactly what I was looking for, Hagar, Thanks!

[Hagar]

I just checked out the He 111 from the Axis Expansion pack in QC. It even has breaking parts. Works a treat.

[Staiduk]

Looks great, Hagar!
I'll whip up a quick 40-on-40 furball with AAA over a laden airfield - that should be a good acid test.
The campaign starts with the Hurricane; moves to the Spit; though not in the way the CFS1 campaign did.
I got this idea: One starts in CFS2 as a flight leader. Unrealistic. In my campaign; your pilot starts as the new guy; 6th pilot in a 6-plane flight. (Did this by not naming player aircraft and placing it on the ground with a named 3-plane flight. Mission instructions and messages during play give you your flight's orders.) Work your way up to flight lead; then eventually to squadron leader; being posted to a Spit squadron elsewhwere in the battle. I'm looking at 40 missions; since they're all air defence; shouldn't be a problem.
This'll be fun!

[Hagar]

Sounds a great idea. Just be careful with those furballs. All those aircraft are bound to affect frame rates. In most cases the RAF squadrons were scrambled separately & directed onto individual targets. This was later judged to be the most effective method by most historians. The big wing wasn't used until late in the BoB, during September 1940. It's still controversial today & one big drawback was the time taken to assemble the wing. This usually gave the enemy bombers the chance to bomb their target & be on their way home before they could be attacked. I always thought the idea was seriously flawed.

[Padser]

Hi all,

Saw someone mentioned that GroundCrew He111 - it really is an excellent aircraft.

While you're looking, check out their BoB Hurricane campaign - one of my favourites!

~S~

Pads

[Hagar]

Hi Pads. People often ask me about a CFS2 BoB campaign & I forgot all about the GC stuff. Thanks for reminding me.

Staiduk. The way I see it, you have 2 options. The choice of Player aircraft is up to you.

1. Use the existing GC aircraft & scenery as a basis for your own campaign.

2. Use the CFS1 defaults (Allied & Axis Expansion packs) for AI aircraft & wingmen.

If I was doing this I would choose option 2. Being comparatively simple models the CFS1 defaults should be far less graphics intensive than the average 3rd party aircraft. They are also much smaller files & perform well in AI. Nobody is going to get close enough to worry about the quality of the visual models.

You will need to find suitable 3rd party scenery. I've lost track of the the latest stuff but Steve McClelland's CFSII Europe Release 2 (UK) always worked well for me.
http://www.simviation.com/cfs2scenery3.htm
(Steve did this at my request). He deliberately left out the CFS1 default airfields but there are plenty of others (over 80) included. The GZR airfields are fully compatible with Steve's mesh.

[Staiduk]

Thanks for the great info; Hagar.
I pretty much came up with the same - or a similar idea last night - to use the 1%'s for the player's team, and CFS1 models for the rest.
BUT - it's the 1% aspect - RealityX - that I really like so what I'm going to do is when I contact the 1% designers for permission to use their planes; I'm going to ask them for permission to replace the AI planes' models and textures with CFS1 stock. A shame; since some of those models - in particular the 1GR Emil - are truly lovely to look at. Ideally of course; it'll wind up with the flight and damage of the 1%'s (particularly their greatly increased toughness - blowing away a plane with 80 rds is a little too quick, I think), coupled with the easy frame-rates of the stock models. Hope they accept - I've tried it on a test and it works very well.
BTW - that 80-plane furball is a load test only. I've made some massive missions from time to time; but they really get difficult to control and far too unweildy at about 20+ a side; which will most likely be the maximum limit for the campaign itself. I find 16 a side - 4 flights of 4 each - to give the maximum excitement and danger while retaining control. 32 'planes winging around more than adequately fills up the sky; I'll bet you'd agree.
(sigh) The first thing i have to do is yet another uninstall/reinstall of CFS2 - I lost track of what's stock and what's not a long time ago; so it's about due...
Ick.  ;D
Cheers!

[Staiduk]

BTW - I agree with ya about the Big Wings; there'll be very few in the campaign - getting them set up in MB will be a bloody NIGHTMARE!
But; they were used; so I'm putting a couple in, to the limits described above. Most will be on the individual section level.
Cheers!

[Hagar]

If you have enough HD space I would suggest a duplicate install of CFS2 for the ETO. Rename the existing CFS2 directory folder with any other name. Then insert the CD & install in the usual way. Both installs will run independently.

When you're ready to upload the campaign there should be no problems using any 1% aircraft you wish as Player aircraft. The GC stuff Pads mentioned is posted in the same way. Check it out. http://www.groundcrewdesign.com/cfs2pack.htm

You don't need permission to use any files, simply tell users where to download them. I dislike this method & prefer to include all required elements with a campaign but this is not always possible.

[kevib1]

Staiduk,
I'm with you on prefering the 1% planes and where possible I only fly them.
Obvious problem is a lack of 1% Spitfire Mk1!

I suggest you put a post on the Avhistory site and you may find that one of the members has done a model that you may be able to use! I'm saying no more than that!!!

I agree that some of them are too heavy on the framerates.
I have found that a lot of this is due to the huge textures that are used on some of these planes.
All the planes that I have found a problem with have 1024 24bit textures. The file size for the texture folder comes in at +10mb on some of these.
By using any graphics package you can reduce the image sizes in half from 1024 to 512px.
And by far the best saving can be made by converting all the images to DXT1 format using Martin Writes image tool.
All this will reduce the folder size from 10mb to 500kb.

I realise that some of the addon planes have large numbers of poly's  and no multi-rez but the above will help enormously.

The problem with using such planes is ensuring that everone who flies you missions knows about redoing the textures.
Unless you provided the textures along with the campaign!

Have you got Gary's BoB airfields from the download section. I think these would be the best fields to use. They also add the White Cliffs of Dover.

I hope this helps.

Kev

[Staiduk]

Thanks again to both for excellent info.
I prefer to add everything as a single download as well Hagar; more like from the downloader's end how annoying it can be having to go get this file and that file... Much easier to set it up for players ahead of time - already a lot of work going into it; what's a little more?

[Hagar]

I prefer to add everything as a single download as well Hagar; more like from the downloader's end how annoying it can be having to go get this file and that file... Much easier to set it up for players ahead of time - already a lot of work going into it; what's a little more?

Kev will know more than me but this might not be possible. I believe the AvHistory guys have strict rules on their stuff being posted anywhere but their own site. Many other designers feel the same or don't like anyone messing with their files. That's why we decided to create all our own stuff for the Fox Four campaigns although this obviously takes longer. The same might apply to the scenery. This is why I recommended Steve McClelland's stuff as I'm sure he will give permission. It would be just as easy to download separately & is a comparatively small file.

Making things as simple as possible to install & keeping the necessary downloads to a reasonable size is important with 3rd party campaigns. IMHO

[Woodlouse2002]

My hat's off to you if you can get a big wing to assemble in CFS2. I tried it once. 5 Spitfire squadrons to assemble with 4 Lancaster bombers over southern england to bomb a target in the Calais area. Bloody nightmare getting them all to arrive at the right time. Then to stop them colliding on the runway. (Used 4 different airfields too.) I got it working fairly well after a time. Certainly looked good.