question on runways

[jimski]

I was unable to load the latest version of fssc including on a machine with a fresh win2000 install. I keep getting messages that I am missing a file. I gave up on that and downloaded old version 1.2 and that is running fine.

Like piersyf I also crashed and blew up while taxiing to the fssc runway. It was very much like breaking through ice, falling and exploding and I decided it was due to an unflat base and fssc1.2 doesn't give much info on how to fix that. Here is what I am doing now. First scout the proposed runway site in MB and note lat and long and ground alititude. The use mkafd to construct the main runway being sure to use a very wide "flatten" option, say 2000 meters so it will handle anything you might throw into the new airport. Test fly the new runway. Then construct the base taxiways and extra runways, etc with fssc. And then populate the base with stock csf2 strutures so you can shoot them up. Works fine for me. Only "problem" is that I don't understand the "texture" thing in fssc and my airfields all look like pool tables. How do you get "texture" onto the field so it looks more like grass instead of like felt?

Jimski

[piersyf]

Hey Jimski. I altered the flat area in FSSC. Haven't tried it yet, as the problem only occurs in the Kondor missions. All other missions and free flight I start from there puts me on the runway. I still can't figure out why the MB won't let me modify those missions. It still just crashes to desktop, and ONLY with the Kondor missions. Grrr. Could it possibly be a OS issue with me running XP?

As to your textures question, I haven't seen the version of FSSC that you're using, but the updated one has several texture options. Otherwise, if you have a graphics software you could make your own... the textures are mostly just .bmp files. Open one up (in your TEXTURES folder) and get a look at the size in pixels, and either make one or modify one. Just change the name of it and it should be selectable in FSSC.

Another option to add variety to your textures is layering. The grass texture is a polygon, but you should be able to lay down more than one. By having varied textures in odd shapes you can break up the outlines a fair bit. Have a look at what I did for an example...



cheers

Piers

[jimski]

As for that Kondor mission you might have to reinvent it. MB is pretty good to work with. As someone said, the man who wrote the mission might have had a totally different set of sceneries, very easy to do after you start installing add ons.

I got a texture to work and get a good looking grass field around the runway. Not sure why my first tries failed. I will try to figure out how to get a screen capture posted on the forum.

Two things I would like to solve are overlapping at taxiway intersections - I assume I can make the main taxiway a high number "layer" to solve that. And getting the old fssc to get buildings from other folders. In particular I'd like to get the stock csf2 to install with the scenery instead of with MB.

Well, thanks for the help. I suppose I have been thinking about doing airfields for a couple of years. Now I can go crazy with it. By the way, wikipedia.com is turning out to be a good source of info on old air bases. Try an "raf airfields" search. Most of the old USAAF bases include photos towards the end of the war plus details of units stationed there and significant missions flown from there.

Jimski

[james007]

Thank you for your information. It has been a very informative post.






James007

[piersyf]

Hey Jimski.
You're right that moving the layers so the runway sits on top of taxiway overlaps should work. An irritation you may have is that FSSC has a very basic layer control in that you can only 'bring to front' or 'send to back'. You can't shift up or down in single layer increments. To get around this, make a list of your layers in the order you want them to appear (from top to bottom) (eg; runway, taxiways, grass1, grass2, flat area) then starting from the top of the list, select the layer and 'send to back'. By the time you have finished the whole list they will all be arranged in the order you want. Sorry if I'm telling you something you already know...

As to uploading screenshots, in the header of this page there's a row of buttons (home, help, search etc). Above them is a site navigation bar without buttons. One of these is 'upload images' This takes you to the upload page. Images have to be no larger than 800 pixels wide (from memory), and no larger than 100k. The info is there on the page... once you have browsed your system for the image and submitted it you'll get a name string. Copy this (control C) then return to your post in the forum.
Now in the post or post reply there's a list of buttons (over the smiley's). The third one along the top row is the 'insert image' icon. Hit that and it will give you a prompt. Put your cursor in the prompt and 'control V' to past the image ID string, and you're away!

Looking forward to seeing some of your pics!

Piers

[jimski]

No, I don't have the layer thing totally figured yet. It will be a few days before I can get back at it.

Going to try an image of my first field, fictional and it looks like a modern municipal airport, not a ww2 field:



The dark runway is my original mkafd entry that also is used to flatten the area. Then the rest is added taxiway with fssc including the concrete parallel runway (just a wide long taxiway). The grass texture is fine to me although I will let someone else mow it. The objects are all csf2 things that will blow up.

i need to work on my screenshot technique too.

Jimski

[jimski]

That worked! Might as well try another.

Here is Martlesham done from a photo I found on wikipedia.org. The article said it was a grass field but the photo looks like paved runways. I suspect the USAAF put down at least matting that looks like pavement. Photos of parked P51 clearly shows matting. Anyway, this one has two grass runways from mkafd. The grass field texture (called grass.bmp) was identical to the mkafd runway texture at first and I couldn't see the runway strips. I changed the pixel thing on the field texture so you can just make out the grass runways, sort of realistic. If I were to do it over I would use the steel matting runway option.



Jimski

[jimski]

Finally RAF Watton from a photo at wikipedia.org. One runway and lots of taxiways. My hardstands need tuning and only about half are drawn so far.  This is the one giving me fits with taxiway overlap. But it looks good from 5000 feet.




jimski

[piersyf]

You did go crazy, didn't you! Very cool! I very much liked your approach to the grass fields.
Have a bash at the layers thing. Don't know whether you've noticed (or maybe your version of FSSC is different) but the help files tell you to right click on the area you want to change layers for and it will allow you to selct the move option (front or back). It doesn't on mine. I had to select one of the circles that define a corner of the polygon before that option to move that layer was no longer 'greyed out'.

Nice work!

Piers

[piersyf]

Hmmm. I got somewhat inspired by your cool images, so reworked the Bordeaux field. Can't find images, so it's fictional, but at least it's something more suited to the Condor.



I then wrote a small mission to do a take off and landing circuit to see if there was any issues with either the a/c or scenery in mission builder. There isn't, so there must be an issue with the Condor campaign files. Anyway, what I found was that I can't leave the runway still.  :'(
I went for a 'drive' around the airbase, and when I turned onto the taxiway the plane exploded. I've flattened the area, and have changed the 'flatten' polygon from the top to the bottom layer, with no change.
This has all been done in FSSC.
Any clues to what I'm doing wrong?

Piers

[jimski]

What I would do first is bring it up in Mission Builder so it fills the mission screen there. Down to the left is another small box that will show the lat and long and elevation of the ground under your mouse cursor. Drag the cursor around your field everywhere and steer it around the taxiways and make sure everything is totally flat.

My first attempt (the twin parallel runways) also had the problem of explosions as I crossed onto the runway. I fixed it by making another runway in mkafd and being very certain that the "flatten" area would include the full airport, say 4000 meters (about 2.5 miles) wide. Mkafd is very quick and easy, the hardest part is knowing what to do with the sca files it generates and you know how to do that already.

I gave up on the layering problem. I am out of ideas for now. It was quite random no matter how I layered things. The problem was where the hardstands meet the main taxiway. Each hardstand is itself a taxiway in three sections. In many cases one end of the hardstand would tuck under the main taxiway (what I wanted) and the other end would flop on top of it! And this when the main taxiway had a higher layer than the hardstand. For now I am solving the problem by using the same bland concrete texture that everyone else uses and it all blends together. But the old texture, with tire streaks and oil spots, had a lot more character.

You might dig deep on the net to find the Bordeaux data. I also found an RAF site that has a writeup of all the RAF bomber fields and a drawing of the runway layout for each. The thing is that the drawings are mostly from modern maps showing the lines as "disused" airfields. In many cases the old airfield infrastructure is still around in pieces and you might see them on modern maps you can find on the internet. For RAF Polebrook (where Clark Gable filmed Combat America) I found the old base is now "Polebrook Lodge". The runways are all gone but the basic road structure is still there.

Also in most cases military airfields became municipal fields after the war. Another trick might be to fly in say FS2002 or whatever and look at the larger airfields around Bordeaux. I would bet one or all of them were military fields during the war. You might dig into wikipedia.org to check the history of those fields. The Condor would have flown from large permanent bases.

Jimski

[jimski]

Bingo! Mr. wikipedia.org knows all!

Try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A

[piersyf]

Thanks for the wiki reference, having the correct location and runway headings is a good start!
Unfortunately still having the same problems with exploding. Tried deleting all files for the base and started again with Mkfds thingy, nothing showed up. Then tried FSSC again, and the same thing happens. In MB all show at same altitude, but the runway is visibly floating in the game. Except you can't fly under it... tried that.
Getting monumentally sick of the whole thing. Missions don't work, utilities don't work... It may even be that it doesn't like the world scenery that I have... but I can't be bothered doing a whole reinstall to test that theory.

P

[jimski]

If your runway is floating above the ground then you probably don't have the right elevation set. That is why I think you have to scout the area of the proposed runway. Get the area up in MB and drag the cursor over the area and watch the elevation change. Let's say it varies from 100' to 110' in the region of your new airport, then I would set the elevation for the new runway and scenery at 100'. After you flatten the region nothing should be floating in air. A bit of a warning here: I found MB works in feet, mkafd works in feet except it widens the flat zone in meters, and my fssc worked in meters.

As for the mkafd effort it makes two .sca files and they must first be converted to bgl files with scasm. One file is for the scenery of the new runwayand that will go into the folder of your new scenery. The second is a runway file and goes into the scenery file of the "runways" folder in scenedb. Then you need to install the new scenery by using the "settings" choice in the main csf2 program. If you want the new runway to be a takeoff choice you must change the airfield data word file in the info folder (I think). mkafd will also save the words you need to paste into the data file. A lot of details, hard to keep track of even if you aren't tired. Once installed I find I can modify the new field's bgl files endlessly as long as I don't change the names of the files.

Having said all that you will note that I wasted no time giving up on getting some computer stuff to work. But I do know mkafd works very well and once you use it to properly flatten an area then fssc scenery will work too.

Get a good night's sleep and take another whack at it. I was up to 5 am getting fssc to work for the first time - pretty much an all nighter.

Jimski