Danny Garnier

[Tweek]

I've started to see multiple complaints from developers and users on other forums about this person uploading other people's work, passing them off as FSX aircraft, by simply adding a thumbnail to them. I guess this would fit nicely into that Nor-Cal thread...

The problem is, he's not been getting permission for these uploads, at least not from any of the developers I've heard from.

But this latest one really takes the biscuit. He's recently uploaded Tim Conrad's J-29 (the FS9 model) for FSX. I suppose he's forgotten, or simply ignored the fact that the J-29 has been fully upgraded to FSX SP2 standard by 'Piglet', himself. Self shadowing, the lot.

Surely there's a way of restricting these uploads, seeing as the files aren't just free to distribute without permission? Perhaps treat the name 'Danny Garnier' with caution whenever he uploads something.

[Hagar]

Having checked out some of these "updates" I would have to agree. It's none of my business but I wonder whether a respectable site like Simviation should be posting them.

[pete]

Well I wouldn't pay attention to other forums myself - given that THEY often don't have a good reputation ......

However as always if we/I get a specific complaint from an authorised person I will always act accordingly.

There are many files uploaded for FSX that are FS9 originals. There are many people uploading FS9 aircraft. I have had less problem reports from the 'Danny Garnier' uploaded files than many others. I did remove one recently after I found it had several essential gauges missing. There are many aircraft around with NO vc gauges and yet apparently are uploaded with permission.

And remember the fights between 'respected' designers? - too many to mention - over who had permission to use what - over years. I will always remove or fix a known problem file but other than that I keep well out of it. There are design teams split apart and still fuming years later ....

The ONLY way to handle this is on an individual file basis.

[Tweek]

Well I wouldn't pay attention to other forums myself

It's the individuals making the complaints, regardless of the forum it's on. I wouldn't treat anyone's opinion differently just because of the forum it's posted on (with the odd exceptions, of course). It tends to start when they've asked the developer if they've given permission for the upload and 99.9% of the time, they haven't.

What it does, if it happens repeatedly, is it tarnishes the reputation of the site. I know of one respected developer who asked for all of his files, uploaded by him or otherwise, to be removed from the site. Whether he went through with that, only you know, but it can't be good when people are literally refusing to allow you to host their files over something that can easily be stopped.

I don't want to tell you how to run your own site, of course, but this kind of thing is a growing concern within the community. Just thought you'd like to hear my views on it.

[Hagar]

Well I wouldn't pay attention to other forums myself - given that THEY often don't have a good reputation ......

This is purely my own opinion Pete. I don't visit other FS forums so cannot be influenced by them. You should know me by now. I care about this site almost as much as you. I don't think hosting files like this does anything for Simviation's reputation.

[pete]

Well I wouldn't pay attention to other forums myself - given that THEY often don't have a good reputation ......

This is purely my own opinion Pete. I don't visit other FS forums so cannot be influenced by them. You should know me by now. I care about this site almost as much as you. I don't think hosting files like this does anything for Simviation's reputation.

Hi Doug,
I just looked at flightsim.com and Garner's files are there too. The problem is, like I said, where do you begin?

You've been with me for near 10 years doing this lark & I've seen the lot! I learned a long time ago that unless there is an obvious problem or I get a complaint from an author, it is not for me to decide what files are OK - after all 99.999% are. We have 100's, maybe 1000's (as do all big FS sites) of files where there is an element of lack of authorisation - even if it's using unknown gauges, default MS aircraft uploaded in full (been done since 1998), texture patterns ........

What makes this hobby great is it's open-ness. If MS/airlines/airports had a closed or 'legal permission required before modification or use' approach, the whole FS hobby would barely exist.  

& like I said - I will always act where I am alerted that an author's wishes are not complied with.

[Hagar]

Well I wouldn't pay attention to other forums myself - given that THEY often don't have a good reputation ......

This is purely my own opinion Pete. I don't visit other FS forums so cannot be influenced by them. You should know me by now. I care about this site almost as much as you. I don't think hosting files like this does anything for Simviation's reputation.

Hi Doug,
I just looked at flightsim.com and Garner's files are there too. The problem is, like I said, where do you begin?

You've been with me for near 10 years doing this lark & I've seen the lot! I learned a long time ago that unless there is an obvious problem or I get a complaint from an author, it is not for me to decide what files are OK - after all 99.999% are. We have 100's, maybe 1000's (as do all big FS sites) of files where there is an element of lack of authorisation - even if it's using unknown gauges, default MS aircraft uploaded in full (been done since 1998), texture patterns ........

What makes this hobby great is it's open-ness. If MS/airlines/airports had a closed or 'legal permission required before modification or use' approach, the whole FS hobby would barely exist.  

You're probably right. It's been a long time & fings ain't what they used to be I'm afraid. Too many "freeware" developers making all sorts of conditions for using their files now. It was much more fun in the old days.

[pete]

I've just looked and the 'offending' files are also in flightsim.com (who knows where else ....)

Is this just another 'anti simviation' thrust?  ::)

Tweek - I suggest you know what's out there before you point fingers (please!)  .. & at least put people right in other forums on who has what, etc

[Groundbound1]

I sent a message to Mr. Conrad the other day about Nor-Cal modifying and re-uploading his models, and he had this to say:

"Yeah, this isn't the first time!
But if they want to waste thier time on an old model of mine..."

He went on to say:
"...But if I spent all my time chasing these d***s, I would never get any planes done.
Tim"


He doesn't sound happy about it, but at the same time, it doesn't sound like he's bothered enough by it to waste his time trying to stop it.

Tweek, knowing what you know about this site, if "Piglet" were to ask Pete to remove the files, don't you think he would? But since he hasn't, I can't see how Simv can be considered to be doing anything wrong.

I don't like the idea of someone modifying or uploading my files (what few there are) to another site without my permission either, but if I did find them somewhere else, I'd hardly hold the website responsible. I would simply ask the site administrators to remove the download if I didn't want it there. If they were to refuse, then THAT would be what would tarnish a site's reputation. Simv's policies and it's respect for designers in the flight sim community would never let such a thing happen.

[Tweek]

I've just looked and the 'offending' files are also in flightsim.com (who knows where else ....)

Is this just another 'anti simviation' thrust?  ::)

Tweek - I suggest you know what's out there before you point fingers (please!)  .. & at least put people right in other forums on who has what, etc

TBH, I haven't been looking around for these files, and they've simply been brought up elsewhere as being on Simviation (and looking again, someone did mention Flightsim.com).

However, I'm not going to register to the flightsim.com forums (if they even have any) with the sole purpose of bringing this subject up with them. I was already registered here, so I brought the issue up here.

And yes, I know that Pete will remove any files that recieve complaints, as I've pointed out elsewhere. His stance has since been explained to me, and I just wanted to know what sort of action he took/would take, if any. I never set out to point fingers or blame anyone, and neither did anyone else.

[pete]

Well I don't know whatever the moron forum that provoked this thread but I would suggest, once again, you get hold of the facts before you start pointing fingers & acting like a sheep.

Simviation is, above all sites I know of, dedicated to freeware development and respect for designers wishes.

[Tweek]

I really don't know what I'm supposed to have done wrong here. My original post was not criticising you or the site, neither was I attempting to create an arguement about this. It was a genuine concern I thought you'd be interested in.

Just for the record, here's the original post:

Hey Piglet....seen your j-29 at Simviation.....

...did you give that hack, Danny Garnier, permission to upload your J-29 there? With all the FS9 portovers (or other people's work) that he's insinuating himself with I wouldn't have thought you'd let him claim your stuff?

Later posts:

My Lublin was uploaded without my permission onto at least two FS sites too - www.fs2000.org, and www.fsplanet.com. I've sent an email to fs2000, and asked them to remove my plane but they didn't even answered.

Just saw it's now on Flightsim dot com.

fsx-j29b.zip

And my subsequent post:

I took it up with Pete at Simviation, and he's basically said that he'll always remove files, on an individual basis, if there are complaints. That's to say that he won't decide who is wrong and who is right upon the file being uploaded, which is understandable.

Please, do tell me what's so anti-Simviation about that, and what facts I haven't got hold of? I got the feeling I was giving some constructive opinions on the subject, put, in what I thought was a polite manner. At least that's how I intended it to be taken...

[wreckerman]

Im kinda late on this post just caught my eye

So danny puts thumbnais in and tests them on service pack one
and that being the reason most are not sp2 or acceleration useble.
Fix ? Probrably not but great on sp1 as were they when he found
them . So he reposted them with credits & now the same file that
ready existed on simv is posted again . Then Their is my Club
the Nor-Cal Prop Club & we have done the same thing with the
exeption that we actually made the files useble with sp2 . Now
all have been made Acceleration & Sp2 ready but because the
designer who posted as freeware now has decided to piss & moan
because some may want to use & share these great aircraft
without waiting FOREVER for the designer to fix if at all we just now
resort to keeping them within the club & so as not to create a
room full of cry babies . Maybe we should in the future call these
files DONT TOUCH WARE and we can all just fly our stock planes
every time fsx has a addon or update & let these aircraft & designers
fade away . Let us Fix ?  You Fix ? Or be forgotten ?

[Boikat]

I guess it depends on how you look at it.  My gripe with Danny's loads are that:

1) I really don't appreciate downloading an aircraft that states, "I found this in my FS9, and it works in FSX" then have to screw around with gauges that are incompatible with FSX because they "were created for FS98 or earlier".  To me, that's not "works in FSX".  Don't get me started on cock-eyed smoke effects or after burner effects! (or the water drop effects on a certain C-54...  ahemmm..)

2) In his readme, he signs as "I make FSX compatible aircraft".  Bull!  He doesn't make anything more than a thumbnail.  Cr*p on a cracker, *I* can do that!  But I'm not running around saying "Hey! Look at me!  I make FSX compatible add-ons!"

What a load of hooie!

[C]

[quote]Im kinda late on this post just caught my eye

So danny puts thumbnais in and tests them on service pack one
and that being the reason most are not sp2 or acceleration useble.
Fix ? Probrably not but great on sp1 as were they when he found
them . So he reposted them with credits & now the same file that
ready existed on simv is posted again . Then Their is my Club
the Nor-Cal Prop Club & we have done the same thing with the
exeption that we actually made the files useble with sp2 . Now
all have been made Acceleration & Sp2 ready but because the
designer who posted as freeware now has decided to piss & moan
because some may want to use & share these great aircraft
without waiting FOREVER for the designer to fix if at all we just now
resort to keeping them within the club & so as not to create a
room full of cry babies . Maybe we should in the future call these
files DONT TOUCH WARE and we can all just fly our stock planes
every time fsx has a addon or update & let these aircraft & designers
fade away . Let us Fix ?