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I was this close to throwing down big bucks to join a local flying club, then got a PM from a pilot on the AOPA board who told me about his club (which I'd never heard of), based at KMMU, which is about as easy for me to get to as KLDJ, although it is controlled, etc. He invited me to go flying with him today to have a look at the planes and talk about the club, and I think I may change my mind. they have only two planes but far fewer active members, they have a reliable older CFII in the ranks, and both planes are IFR-legal. It's also a lot cheaper to get in, hourly rates are lower, and they only meet 5 times a year...

So come on along and tell me what you guys think. I believe I posted some shots of my fly-in with the gang from the other club a while ago...

It beiong a Sunday afternoon, it only took me about 20 stress-free minutes to drive there... the ramp areas are secured but club members get an important-looking ID badge for access... there's also a "ready room" with bathroom and computer terminals, for that last-minute weather check and a chance to clear the bilge, also only accessible to card holders.




I haven't been here in ages, and only then for touch-and-gos, so I was surprised to find so many "little guys" hanging around. This is what the NW ramp at Teterboro used to look like.  My new friend told me it's not too busy there, and the only delays recently have been due to taxiway refurbishing (which is fine- I love taxiing on fresh pavement!).


     




Our mount for today's little XC was the club's only C172: a 1976 (?) model in good condition. I hope they'll consider getting proper covers for these planes, but the sun shield helps. Also, the windshield is new. I like that.

     


The panel: a little old, a little new... the club has two G296s, but  Gary has not learned to use them yet so we didn't take it along. Don't need it anyway for this flight- plenty of NDBs around here.  Been thinking of getting my own portable GPS anyway, so I'll have it with me when I'm flying rentals in my travels around the country. Note the old Navomatic AP; the one in this plane is inop, or may have only been marked as such for a check ride, G. was not sure.
My only beef with this panel: I hate those toggle-type flap switches...




But it doesn't matter, because at less than $95/hr wet tach time, I could afford to do my IR training in this sweet Cardinal, which has a known-to-be-good AP. Gary is not checked out in this one yet, so we didn't take it up today. but I got a good look, and me likey. A real 4-seater; constant-speed prop; a bit faster and a bit more elbow room... not a retractable but I don't really care... I prefer to not have to worry about that.

     


The panel in the 177 is very similar, right down to the Navomatic and the ADF. It also has a nice holder for the GPS (the 172 also has one, but it was stowed). Note the detent-style flap switch... yes, I think I could enjoy flying this baby.  :)

     


So with me in the right seat observing, G. took us NE over to DXR in Danbury, CT, about 53 miles away. It was a lovely afternoon, not too bumpy, with friendly clouds at about 5000.
I found G. to be a typical good low-time PP (not sure of his hours but he is fairly new, even compared to me): very conservative, heavy use of the checklist, etc. Good skills all-around. He's obviously no dummy, being a chemist by trade . We got along just fine. I shot some video enroute, but no aerial stills.


The ramp at DXP, a small Class D I'd never been to before... they have an excellent pilot shop here, and some interesting older airplanes hanging around...

     


Like this Kinner Sportster... looks like fun.


     


And a well-restored but well-used Stinson Sentinel, yet another variation on the light observation/liaison theme.



The flight back was also pleasant, although there was a bit of confusion in the tower at KMMU and G. wound up being asked to execute  a 360 on final to let a King Air slide in under us (which he did very well). Not our fault, but I learned something new after a few moments of us nervously peering around above and to the sides, thinking "where is he... ooohboy, where's the King Air..." :
In a Cessna, when in doubt, do not assume the other traffic is above you in your blind spot. The moment the King Air pilot mentioned he had us spotted above and to his right, I looked over in the lowest possible corner of the window on the left side and there it was. I realized that I hardly ever scan that area in flight... not good, especially when you consider that most midairs involve an airplane overtaking another.

So I am pretty sure that if they'll have me, and I can stop traveling long enough to get checked out, etc., I'm probably going to join this club. I can get my hi-perf and IR stuff done pretty cheaply in the Cardinal (with the Skyhawk as a backup), and maybe have money left over  for a GPS and a portable nav/co

Very interesting.

A pilot who's giving up flying for financial reasons (divorce I think), has left a nice, newer hand-help GPS in the club for sale.  I'll get the specifics and PM you, later this week.

About that Cardinal.. you're gonna love flying it. It might be a Cessna, but it's no trainer. It's whole envelpoe is "different". It's not as forgiving as a 172; climbs kinda like a Mooney(not as quicky as you'd expect but trims out like a boat for fast, level flight) and demands lotsa good rudder use (especially during x-wind landings)(once you get used to it, you'll hope for x-wind landings, they're actually easier (within reason)).. and flying by  MP/RPM with cowl-flaps to deal with will be great experience. However (and I might be wrong), unless it's over 200hp, it can't be used for a hi-po endorsement... and with fixed gear, no complex endorsement either... if any of that matters in your decision...

I knew Brett would appreciate the Cardinal...

It's a 180hp version, I think, but I don't care, really- I might actually  happier learning to fly a controllable-pitch job that's not so powerful; I think of it as an intermediate step in that direction. Eventually I want the complex add-on, but  for my own casual use I have no need for a retractable and all the possible problems associated with that.

Funny you should mention horsepower, Brett: Gary was telling me that the 177s originally had only 150 horses... didn't know that... what pigs they must have been!  :D

I'm not surprised to hear about rudder work in the 177; one look at the rudder trim told that tale for me.
I'm also not surprised to hear it might be easier to land in an X-wind... it's lines are very clean, and the moment from (large) rudder to CG seems quite long, although the fuselage is pretty slender. That should equal more rudder authority and easier sideslipping in gusts.
Or am I completely off the mark...?

I dunno, nor do I care... I like it, and that's a great hourly rate for a machine like that. To think I was paying $115/hr Hobbs time for a Skyhawk S...!!! Stupid!!  ::)

PS: DO keep me posted about that GPS; definitely interested.

PPS: you need to make a fixed version of the 177 for FS9 now... I can get better pics for the textures...

Just one question, Sean is it closer to or a little farther from me??  ;)

I've got an incredible warm-spot in my heart for Cardinals. I could talk about them for hours. They're "real" airplanes. You really feel like you're a pilot, captaining one of those things. Everything about them gives you that sensation, right down to how you sit and feel behind the yoke. The first time you set it down on the mains, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. The RG that was "my" plane at our club (which was 200hp) might be a little more so, than a fixed gear... but a Cardinal is a Cardinal.

I can't imagine one with 150, though..  can't imagine what Cessna was thinking. I've flown a fixed gear 180hp once, and it was a treat... you'll love it.

You're right on the mark about the rudder. It's very authorative... gives you that extra marging for error when you'd have run out of rudder, in a 172. And the side-effect to that, is that when you DO use rudder, you gotta use it properly. Until you get the hang of it.. you'll be wagging that tail all over the place..lol

At first glance you might assume the same about the stabilator (yup, just like a PA28). It feels heavier, probably because you're deflecting a larger surface, but it's not really more authoritive (probaly because overall deflection is less ?) All I can say, is that when you use the elevator (especially flaring), it's not as "touchy" as a 172... You're not as likely to baloon the flare, and you'll use more yoke travel than you're used to, holding it off and getting it to settle. That won't be a concern though.. because by the time you're checked out and solo-ing in it, you'll have learned to be at target airspeed (75kias in the RG) over the numbers (get near 70 and it's coming down, NOW     )

Now I'm all nostalgic  *sigh*

Just one question, Sean is it closer to or a little farther from me??  ;)

LOL. It's a little farther north, but not much.

I've got an incredible warm-spot in my heart for Cardinals. I could talk about them for hours. They're "real" airplanes. You really feel like you're a pilot, captaining one of those things. Everything about them gives you that sensation, right down to how you sit and feel behind the yoke. The first time you set it down on the mains, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. The RG that was "my" plane at our club (which was 200hp) might be a little more so, than a fixed gear... but a Cardinal is a Cardinal.

I can't imagine one with 150, though..  can't imagine what Cessna was thinking. I've flown a fixed gear 180hp once, and it was a treat... you'll love it.

You're right on the mark about the rudder. It's very authorative... gives you that extra marging for error when you'd have run out of rudder, in a 172. And the side-effect to that, is that when you DO use rudder, you gotta use it properly. Until you get the hang of it.. you'll be wagging that tail all over the place..lol

At first glance you might assume the same about the stabilator (yup, just like a PA28). It feels heavier, probably because you're deflecting a larger surface, but it's not really more authoritive (probaly because overall deflection is less ?) All I can say, is that when you use the elevator (especially flaring), it's not as "touchy" as a 172... You're not as likely to baloon the flare, and you'll use more yoke travel than you're used to, holding it off and getting it to settle. That won't be a concern though.. because by the time you're checked out and solo-ing in it, you'll have learned to be at target airspeed (75kias in the RG) over the numbers (get near 70 and it's coming down, NOW     )

Now I'm all nostalgic  *sigh*

That all makes sense... I've always believed that the apparent ease in landing the small Pipers had less to do with the low stance and more to do with the "flying tail"... not sure why, though. ome to think of it, the Card has a pretty low stance for a high-wing... hmmm...  :-/

Anyway, keep your fingers crossed: you and I may get to take a "sentimental journey" or two in 142 before the year is over...

Just one question, Sean is it closer to or a little farther from me??  ;)

Just hop on 287 and you can be there in a jiffy.

By the way Sean, what time were you at MMU? I showed up around noontime to do some hunting for a place to spot.

Just one question, Sean is it closer to or a little farther from me??  ;)

Just hop on 287 and you can be there in a jiffy.

By the way Sean, what time were you at MMU? I showed up around noontime to do some hunting for a place to spot.

I arrived just after 1PM; we took off just before 2 and got back just before 5. It's funny you should mention that you were out spotting: I actually thought of calling you to see if you were at Sky Manor, but then decided to just get on home.

A good place (sometimes) to see KMMU traffic is the parking lot of that corporate park south of the field (across Rte 24); I took some pics from there two summers ago that were pretty good.
Gary told me that there will be an open house at KMMU (Morristown Pilot's Assoc.), with tower tours, in mid-October, if I'm not mistaken. That might be a good opportunity to get some good pics there...

[quote][quote][quote]Just one question, Sean is it closer to or a little farther from me??

It's funny you should mention that you were out spotting: I actually thought of calling you to see if you were at Sky Manor, but then decided to just get on home.

I was actually thinking about doing the same. I wasn't sure if you were home from Oshkosh yet though. By the time I got home though, I realized AirVenture had been over for almost two weeks. Oh well. I have shots from last evening because I went back. Too beautiful of a night to pass up.

Cory, that sounds like a good idea too. I know we've been pushing this idea around for about a year and a half now.

My offer is still standing. Anyone who wants to come to Sky Manor, I'll gladly buy lunch (or dinner, as it were).

If the weather is somewhat decent next weekend, should we set a preliminary outing at either MMU or N40? What do you all think?

It's funny you should mention that you were out spotting: I actually thought of calling you to see if you were at Sky Manor, but then decided to just get on home.

I was actually thinking about doing the same. I wasn't sure if you were home from Oshkosh yet though. By the time I got home though, I realized AirVenture had been over for almost two weeks. Oh well. I have shots from last evening because I went back. Too beautiful of a night to pass up.

Cory, that sounds like a good idea too. I know we've been pushing this idea around for about a year and a half now.

My offer is still standing. Anyone who wants to come to Sky Manor, I'll gladly buy lunch (or dinner, as it were).

If the weather is somewhat decent next weekend, should we set a preliminary outing at either MMU or N40? What do you all think?

The rest of August is pretty much booked up for me!!
I'll be on vacation from Aug. 26Th through Sept. 3rd!!  :)

Next weekend I'm off to San Diego until at least the first week of October.

Some ideas, though: we should all go up to Old Rhinebeck before October 15th (last show) or maybe meet up at Grimes in Bethel, PA (they close up on the 27th). We could all take a biplane ride and shoot identical photo albums... LOL.

And yes, almost forgot: there's supposed to be an Open House at KMMU this fall, but I can't find any info online. I'll check with Gary on that. If it's in October, that might be a fun thing that's fairly close to all of us.

I would suggest the LGA open house at the end of September, but if Sean isn't going to be there...

Aw heck, I'll go anyway.