A disappearing classic...

[Delta_]

The new CVF aircraft carriers are similar to the size of the Nimitz carriers.

I would like to see a supersonic harrier, or aircraft carriers using the Tornado, that will do mach 2.  Just needs bringing up to date.  Which is where the eurofighter comes in.  The eurofighter can do mach 2.2 and pull sustained 9G unlike the JSF which does mach 1.5 and has no significant sustained G.

If they are this undecided whether the JSF will go ahead because of cost, then the F22 is definetly not going to happen.

[ozzy72]

Funny you should mention the F22 not happening... but it has!
http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb/ ... 1134720468

[Delta_]

That's obviously where all their money went

[Woodlouse2002]

If they are this undecided whether the JSF will go ahead because of cost, then the F22 is definetly not going to happen.

I don't think there ever has, or ever will be any risk of the F22 finding it's way into the Royal Navy.

[Ivan]

VTOL JSF is a flawed design... only because the marines will keep their mini carries they decided to build a VTOL one... and instead of improving a proven design (AV-8B / Harrier) they went ahead with something that was proven to be far too expensive (Yak-141)

[C]

Well after the SHAR has gone the only fixed wing aircraft in the RN will be those belonging to the Royal Naval Historic Flight.

I imagine when 3 Sqn disbands and rebrands as a RN Squadron then all the aircraft with the new Sqn colours will adopt RN titling, as do some of the Hawks at Valley.

I would like to see a supersonic harrier, or aircraft carriers using the Tornado, that will do mach 2.  Just needs bringing up to date.  Which is where the eurofighter comes in.  The eurofighter can do mach 2.2 and pull sustained 9G unlike the JSF which does mach 1.5 and has no significant sustained G.

Well, to be fair, we covered that one 40 years ago with the cancelled P.1154...

On that note, it appears that the GE/Rolls Royce alliance may have been booted out of the JSF programme. I think P&W are being given a little boost considering GE and RR's domination of the civvy market...

[F3Hadlow]

There will still be fixed wing Navy aircraft after the SHAR is retired (prior to the GR7 remarkings) because there are  RN Hawks based at RNAS Yeovilton and Jetstreams at Culdrose.

[Woodlouse2002]

Yeah, but you know those Hawks are the enemy right?

[HawkerTempest5]

Yeah, but you know those Hawks are the enemy right?

And the Sea Fury will eat them for breakfast Some chap in a Mig 15 found that out to his cost one time.

[Richarduk]

I do love a good debate.But remember us brits have a history of getting rid of perfectly good aircraft designs in favor of something with half the abbility.Who remembers TSR2 which was scraped because the americans were afraid of its perfomance.It was replaced for front line service by the buccaneer.Now thats a step backwards.The F111s that the US offered us haddn,t even flown at that time.

[Hagar]

Nice shot Steven.

Who remembers TSR2 which was scraped because the americans were afraid of its perfomance.

I'm not sure that was the reason. The TSR.2 was a victim of the now infamous 1957 Defence White Paper that was the start of the end of the British aviation industry. It was presented by Duncan Sandys who was defence minister at the time & ironically Winston Churchill's son-in-law. He believed that the day of manned fighter was over & these would be replaced by guided missiles. I think this was influenced by his experience with the German V-weapons during & after the end of WWII. It was also responsible for killing off the Avro Arrow in Canada.

I found a good site explaining the development of the Harrier. http://www.harrier.org.uk/history/history1_1.htm
From what I can see of current events the people responsible for procuring aircraft for the armed forces have learned nothing since the 1960s.

The Royal Navy could have had this back in 1970. The Hawker P.1154 (supersonic Harrier) that Charlie mentioned. Another victim of that White Paper.

[Woodlouse2002]

It was actually the supersonic Harrier that was going to be called the Harrier. The Harrier we know was going to be called the Kestrel or something but the name was switched when the supersonic programme was ditched.

[Woodlouse2002]

I do love a good debate.But remember us brits have a history of getting rid of perfectly good aircraft designs in favor of something with half the abbility.Who remembers TSR2 which was scraped because the americans were afraid of its perfomance.It was replaced for front line service by the buccaneer.Now thats a step backwards.The F111s that the US offered us haddn,t even flown at that time.

Actually the TSR2 was designed to take over from the Canberra. However the TSR2 was scrapped and the Canberra is still in service.

[C]

It was actually the supersonic Harrier that was going to be called the Harrier. The Harrier we know was going to be called the Kestrel or something but the name was switched when the supersonic programme was ditched.

The Kestrel was in service with the first Tri-national Sqns in the mid 60s (the days when the Germans were still involved in the project)

Actually the TSR2 was designed to take over from the Canberra. However the TSR2 was scrapped and the Canberra is still in service.

To be fair, the Canberras that have been in service for the last 30 years have only been EW and PR variants. The main bulk of the TSR2s work has been achieved (probably more cheaply) using a combination of the Buccaneer, and secondly the MRCA (Tornado GR1/4).

[Tweek]

Who remembers TSR2 which was scraped because the americans were afraid of its perfomance.It was replaced for front line service by the buccaneer.Now thats a step backwards.The F111s that the US offered us haddn,t even flown at that time.

Going by what I have read, I think it was the Phantom that was brought into service, to fulfill the role that the TSR.2 would have. The Buccaneer had entered service before the TSR.2 had even flown. However, to avoid the embarrassment of using an all-American aircraft, they used British Spey engines in the Phantom, which weren't as capable as the engines used in the American Phantoms (Pratt & Whittneys?).

At least I think that was the case
Perhaps Doug can enlighten us a little more!