A disappearing classic...

[Woodlouse2002]

I believe a Supersonic Buccaneer was proposed instead of the TSR2. Though neither happened and we brought Phantoms instead.

[Hagar]

Going by what I have read, I think it was the Phantom that was brought into service, to fulfill the role that the TSR.2 would have. The Buccaneer had entered service before the TSR.2 had even flown. However, to avoid the embarrassment of using an all-American aircraft, they used British Spey engines in the Phantom, which weren't as capable as the engines used in the American Phantoms (Pratt & Whittneys?).

At least I think that was the case
Perhaps Doug can enlighten us a little more!

I could do worse than quote from a specially written article by aviation historian Bill Gunston on the history of the RAF from its formation in 1918 & published in the April 1998 issue of Aeroplane. This extract is from

[cspyro21]

I believe a Supersonic Buccaneer was proposed instead of the TSR2. Though neither happened and we brought Phantoms instead.

We should have gone ahead with the TSR2.... it would have made a better piece of equipment than the Phantom, although the TSR2 was...well.....big.

[Woodlouse2002]

We should have gone ahead with the TSR2.... it would have made a better piece of equipment than the Phantom, although the TSR2 was...well.....big.

Big yes. But fantastically fast. On one of the few test flights the test pilot lit just one of the afterburners and left it's Lightning chase plane for dust.

[Marlin]

and also France have said they would be happy to supply us with the rafale as we will be using simmilar carriers to them anyway.

Oh and great shots

I wonder if france is going to supply Iran with the rafale too?

[Marlin]

A large part of the JSF is british, its just being finalised and built in the US. Another reason why the military are getting fed up with withheld information. Most of it was ours to begin with.

Not true Craig. It was designed in the USA by Americans with the help of the Brits.

[Marlin]

Nice shot Steven.

He believed that the day of manned fighter was over & these would be replaced by guided missiles.

the armed forces have learned nothing since the 1960s.

The Royal Navy could have had this back in 1970. The Hawker P.1154 (supersonic Harrier) that Charlie mentioned. Another victim of that White Paper.

Now that would have looked good with the stars and bars on it. Shoot, if we had that it might have been easily updated and this JSF might not have come to the drawing board!

White paper is a bitch, just makes me shake my head and say WHAT, why?

[Marlin]

It shows just what an impossible state the industry was in at the time, mainly due to political interference.

Very well said Hagar. This shouldn't ever happen, it has been proven time and time again that the free market can do better than any Govt program can. A lot cheaper too!!!!

[Woodlouse2002]

Not true Craig. It was designed in the USA by Americans with the help of the Brits.

BAe had a very, very big hand in the design of the JSF.

[C]

BAe had a very, very big hand in the design of the JSF.

...and still does, in a very big way. No on can claim they completely "designed" the aircraft in a project like the JSF, Tornado, Typhoon.

In fact it was a British test pilot who made the first VTOL flight of the X-35 IIRC (British TPs being involved in both programs to this day), and many of the aircraft's major systems are being developed in the UK...

[C]

I imagine when 3 Sqn disbands and rebrands as a RN Squadron then all the aircraft with the new Sqn colours will adopt RN titling, as do some of the Hawks at Valley.

...and to clarify that, on March 31st 2006, Cottesmore based Harrier unit 3 (F) Sqn will hand over their Sqn Standard to the new Eurofighter unit at Coningsby, and then will rename as 800 Sqn, RN.

[RHeite]

Being here at New River, we get alot of the AV-8 traffic from Cherry Point for re-fueling.

I've talked to a few of the lawn-dart drivers about the JSF transistion.  Alot of them would rather stay with the harrier (as tainted as it is) but there are a few who would welcome the JSFs speed.

The other reason for a supersonic replacement for the harrier, is the change in Marine Warfighting doctrine.  With the introduction of the Osprey and future variants, along with developments in other equipment, the Marine Corps is moving towards a more mobile and powerfull force in readiness. Strike deep and fast from a distance.  Doctrinal changes also effect the choice in aircraft.

Althought the CAS ablity of the AV is still a very large factor.  There was recently an article about 2 av-8s in Afghanistant who provided CAS to a group of Marines for 4 hours. Re-fueling many times, providing FAC, intel, all from the cockpit, many times using regular binoculars to relay information of enemy positions to the Marines on the ground.

I will agree with others who have said it though...they sure do have a pretty little sound to them...and watching a division of these bad boys break in sequence at 1000 feet, circle to land....a beautiful site. I've got some video of it somewhere...I'll have to dig it out and get it posted.

[C]

Interesting article in the press how several fall back options for the RAF/RN are now being studied in case the JSF falls through/becomes prohibitively expensive/the DoD decides the UK can't have its technology...

F/A-18, Gripen and navalised Euofighter (why didn't they just do that in the first place) are all apparently under consideration...