Gun effectiveness

[RAFAIR100]

Ever since I started flying CFS1, I've found that it's very much easier to get accurate hits from a Hurricane or Spitfire than from a P-47 or P-51.        I can't think why this should be so but, with the latter two aircraft, you put the bead on the target, hose away with your 0.5s, and not a whole lot happens until you've been shooting for an unconscionably long time.      Has anyone else experienced this?

[ozzy72]

The only way to be really accurate with guns is to get so close you can reach out and touch the enemy from your cockpit.
Could be 'cos the American kites use heavier ammo of course... try aiming slightly above the target from astern and don't forget to lead your target. Tis just practice Of course the Spitfire is a superior aircraft

[H]

The firing convergance can also be adjusted in the .dp. Speed and distance can make a difference and the British* tended to be a little slower.

...American kites use heavier ammo of course... try aiming slightly above the target from astern and don't forget to lead your target. Tis just practice Of course the Spitfire is a superior aircraft

Of course, it would only be effective in German skies if a P47 or P51 towed it like a kite half way from London.

*planes... I meant planes!

8-)

[ozzy72]

Rear fuselage and wing tanks? Drop tanks? The Spit had 'em all

[H]

Rear fuselage and wing tanks? Drop tanks? The Spit had 'em all

The point being that it would have had to -- and the same was available for the P51d which could nearly go as far as the so endowed Spitfire without them.

8-)

[DrRedskwirrell]

I flew the Hurricane, Spit and P51 as 'stock' aircraft in online dogfights for 5 years.

M$ introduced certain 'effect's to make each plane different and I found the P51 had a stronger recoil effect which made longer distance shots slightly (emphasis on slightly) harder but still possible with practice.

I used to teach people how to fly the 'stock' game, and then the aircraft, when the Zone was up and running. Now I'll have to resort to text advice via Simviation.

'Hosing' away with your guns is bad practice. Fly "100%" settings and use short, 1 second, bursts when you cannot miss the target to save ammo. You will have some left to use against your opponent when he ditches and has to get a new plane, which gives you a one plane advantage.

The Hurricane was my favourite as it's the aircraft I started learning and, for a long time, was the better performer online. Then people started perfecting different tricks with the P51 and it became a better performer.

With either aircraft the max range is 'around' 2000ft (depending on certain circumstances). If you're firing at a greater range than that, you're just wasting ammo. At that range your opponent will take damage from shots landed. However, the closer you get, the greater the damage will be from the same rounds because of the force it will carry with it (muzzle velocity, etc).

When I was still flying everyone would tell me to avoid the 'head-to-head' challenge. Instead, I flew more and more. I would fly into a head to head, letting opponents fire and waste ammo. I would open fire at around 1200ft. This is a much more accurate range although this tactic will not work against an experienced pilot and you always should adjust your tactics acording to what you know about your enemy.

At 1200ft I could put rounds into my opponent 99% of the time which then hindered his (/her) performance. I could then use the greater agility of the Hurricane to get onto their tail and put more rounds in from a closer range.

The best advice I could give any of my students is to concentrate on your flying skills and outmanuevering your opponents, then worry about shooting them. If you're behind them, you can take your time and they can't shoot you.
The best aircraft for that is the Hurricane. It has smaller rounds but, if you can get them into your opponent and he can't bring his weapons to bear on you, you should win the battle.

However, every aircraft has differen strengths and weaknesses and you should fly each accordingly; If you fly like that against an experienced P51 or spit pilot (or German aircraft, especially the fw), they should simply use their greater speed and horse power to get out of range, gain height advantage, and then come back and let you have it with spades. This is called 'zoom and boom' and is how the Germans fought the airwar.

If you're into one of these battles you need to learn how to fly 'injured', which involves mastering trim to counteract damage inflicted. If you are unable to fly injured, you will lose your maneuverability, and the advantage, and the heavier gunned aircraft will be able to pick you off at will.

The Spit was a very good Zoom and Boom fighter but I would not use one unless I was in a fight with other zoom and boom planes and, even then, I would normally take a P51.

The 'stock' aircraft in CFS1 are generally recognised NOT to be accurate flight models of the real thing but they did put everyone in a 'stock' game on the same footing which is why I preferred them to so-called '1%' or 'mod' aircraft. Unfortunately some children did start resorting to 'improved' aircraft and began to sneak them into 'stock' games pretending they were also 'stock' which did spoil the game towards the end.
If you're in a 'stock' game, fly 'stock' aircraft, otherwise fly whatever the host has advertised the game as.

[H]

[color=#003300]I often fly low around and between buildings. I once let an offline game continue for two hours or so after landing* my pursued, badly injured Hurri and rolled it between the buildings; the AA finally took out the 109.
During the few online games in which I participated, I've also succeeded in extended touch and goes while the pursuer flew on by, pushing full throttle just before he passed over or when (if experienced) he started to turn off rather than fly over. That's another lesson to remember: don't fly straight over your opponent

[JG57_Rall]

[quote]Ever since I started flying CFS1, I've found that it's very much easier to get accurate hits from a Hurricane or Spitfire than from a P-47 or P-51.      

[RAFAIR100]

I am grateful to all who took the trouble to reply to my original note.       I don't believe that I have yet got a satisfactory answer to my question, although the convergence issue may merit investigation.     In the real world, if you get close enough 'to touch him from the cockpit' you best be prepared to dodge the debris while you're shooting.     If you really do get that close, you'll probably get two for the price of one - your opponent and YOU.      I should make the point,  too, that I don't really advocate 'hosing': again, in the real world, you'd be liable to burn out the barrels.    In FS, I felt it was an acceptable tactic to compare the effectiveness of different aircraft.     Again, thanks to all.

[AvHistory]

Could be 'cos the American kites use heavier ammo

Nope, the US guns have a much higher muzzle velocity & a flatter trajectory so they should be easier to aim.  The stock guns in all the CFS series are porked.  

[james007]

I know Mojor Hank gave this information before. I just want to give you more information.http://www.absquad.net/cfs_utilities.htm

Download this this utility call CFS1-CFS2 AimIt and trace back to your Stock plane or any other. It works like a sharm. It comes with a self installer. Install it on a folder of your choice first and work with it from there by stracing it back to the AC you want to modify through its DP file.




James007

[AvHistory]

Or you can get it directly from those who actually designed it;

http://www.mudpond.org/Aim_it.ZIP

[Jeph]

'Hosing' away with your guns is bad practice. Fly "100%" settings and use short, 1 second, bursts when you cannot miss the target to save ammo. You will have some left to use against your opponent when he ditches and has to get a new plane, which gives you a one plane advantage.


The 'stock' aircraft in CFS1 are generally recognised NOT to be accurate flight models of the real thing but they did put everyone in a 'stock' game on the same footing which is why I preferred them to so-called '1%' or 'mod' aircraft. Unfortunately some children did start resorting to 'improved' aircraft and began to sneak them into 'stock' games pretending they were also 'stock' which did spoil the game towards the end.
If you're in a 'stock' game, fly 'stock' aircraft, otherwise fly whatever the host has advertised the game as.

S! sir. if i could correct something... the 100% flight setting is well above and beyond anything accurate, and a waste of talent, at least in my case. a few years ago, while i was in the RAF662 (RAF_Skwerl), there was an individual, RAF_Yank (Lt. Col. Don Archer, USAF ret.), who refused to fly 100% hard settigns in CFS1 and 2. he flew a P-47 (Wonderful Winnie) in WW2, and knows how the planes fly. the 95% medium is as close to real as M$ allows, and is the general setting with the squadron, simply because he was one of a small few who actually knew what was realistic with fighters.

as far as the non-stock planes passing restrict (at least in CFS2), absolutely! ive seen a trans-sonic corsair with what seemed like a 20mm minigun firing at like 10,000 rounds a minute get into a restricted game. i was an "aggressor" in games where these kids joined, and generally flew a stock hellcat. flying at 17000-20000 ft, a friend and i would wait for one of the kids to come in with their cheats, and "spawn kill" them every chance we got. it was peaceful once they realized they didnt have a good chance of screwing up the game. i didnt mind getting out of furballs to kill stupid kids.  ;D

thanks for your time, S!

[DrRedskwirrell]