F-16 Down over Iraq!

[Isak922]

http://www.f-16.net/news_article2066.html  :(  :-/  :'(

Hopefully the pilot survived, but by the looks of it he didn't

[SkyNoz]

If they can't find him, he's hopefully not being touchered by the terrorist or he ran away is hiding, it's very strange to have a "unknown" where abouts. I really want to know why the aircraft crashed, it said the F-16 was going up and down erratically, but what was the cause?

[BFMF]

It went down not too far from where I am

I've been paying attention to it it ever since it happened.

[dcunning30]

It went down not too far from where I am

I've been paying attention to it it ever since it happened.

I noticed some time ago the Army Corps of Engineers logo you're using.  I assume you're Army?

[BFMF]

[quote]I noticed some time ago the Army Corps of Engineers logo you're using.

[dcunning30]

[quote][quote]I noticed some time ago the Army Corps of Engineers logo you're using.

[Saitek]

If it nosedived into a field - surely he would have time to eject.

[eniranjanrao]

I hope the Army have found the remains.
Which reminds me 15 years ago a Mig 21 did the same thing during a Pratice mission they only found some Human parts quite macbare but thats life.

[BFMF]

I believe they found evidence suggesting the possibility that insurgents took him

[dcunning30]

I believe they found evidence suggesting the possibility that insurgents took him

sucks, that likely means his head will be seperated from his body.  that's very saddening.  

long before daniel pearl was murdered, i saw this video of chetchins killing a russian soldier.  they didn't chop his head off, they slowly carved his head off like they were carving a turkey, while the hapless soldier was still alive.  the website owner warned us that this is what was in store.

[expat]

I believe they found evidence suggesting the possibility that insurgents took him

sucks, that likely means his head will be seperated from his body.  that's very saddening.  

long before daniel pearl was murdered, i saw this video of chetchins killing a russian soldier.  they didn't chop his head off, they slowly carved his head off like they were carving a turkey, while the hapless soldier was still alive.  the website owner warned us that this is what was in store.

Yes, I put that video at the top of the list of the most horrific things I have ever seen.  :-[

Matt

[Chris_F]

How insanely counter-productive is that!  (with regard to the horrorfying video mentioned, which I have not and won't see).  Here's the message the terrorists are sending:  "What ever you do, DO NOT SURRENDER.  The only thing you can do to avoid having your head carved like a turkey is to fight to the death.  Don't ever give up because your fate is sealed.  So kill as many of us as you can and maybe you'll survive."

Geez.  I know these guys are a bit on the cracked side but that's rediculous.  I understand (though obviously don't agree with) using terror to achieve political ends.  The whole "stop supporting Isreal or we'll crash more planes in to your buildings" thing.  But torturing soldiers who surrender doesn't send this message at all.  All it says is that a soldier must never surrender, he must fight until dead.  The Japanese used the same tactic during WWII.

There's a certain wisdom in treating surrendered combatants humanely.  The army you fight will know that if they surrender they will be protected.  Heck, treat 'em like kings!  Thank them for surrendering.  Perhaps the word will get out and you'll have more surrendering.  Kinda like the first Gulf war.  Do you think there would be mass surrenders if the Allied forces were torturing everyone who surrendered?  No, they'd fight until dead.  And the war would have been longer and bloodier.

Sorry for straying off topic...

[expat]

How insanely counter-productive is that!  (with regard to the horrorfying video mentioned, which I have not and won't see).  Here's the message the terrorists are sending:  "What ever you do, DO NOT SURRENDER.  The only thing you can do to avoid having your head carved like a turkey is to fight to the death.  Don't ever give up because your fate is sealed.  So kill as many of us as you can and maybe you'll survive."

Geez.  I know these guys are a bit on the cracked side but that's rediculous.  I understand (though obviously don't agree with) using terror to achieve political ends.  The whole "stop supporting Isreal or we'll crash more planes in to your buildings" thing.  But torturing soldiers who surrender doesn't send this message at all.  All it says is that a soldier must never surrender, he must fight until dead.  The Japanese used the same tactic during WWII.

There's a certain wisdom in treating surrendered combatants humanely.  The army you fight will know that if they surrender they will be protected.  Heck, treat 'em like kings!  Thank them for surrendering.  Perhaps the word will get out and you'll have more surrendering.  Kinda like the first Gulf war.  Do you think there would be mass surrenders if the Allied forces were torturing everyone who surrendered?  No, they'd fight until dead.  And the war would have been longer and bloodier.

Sorry for straying off topic...

The problem is that terrorism works. At the end of the day all "conflicts" involving terrorists have to a small extent ended up with the government/leaders appeasing them to a certain extent to get an end to the conflict.


Matt

[Chris_F]

The problem is that terrorism works. At the end of the day all "conflicts" involving terrorists have to a small extent ended up with the government/leaders appeasing them to a certain extent to get an end to the conflict.


Matt

Yeah, like I said, I understand (but disagree with) the political terrorism thing.  It does work (unfortunately).  Even if all it does is draw attention to the terrorist's cause.  I didn't know nearly as much about the US's involvement in various issues affecting Muslim countries before 9/11 as I do now.  I don't agree with the terrorists methods, but they are effective.

The thing I don't get is the torturing prisoners thing.  There's no message there.  There's no political gain.  All it does is solidify your opponent in their fight against you.

[Ivan]

How insanely counter-productive is that! (with regard to the horrorfying video mentioned, which I have not and won't see). Here's the message the terrorists are sending: "What ever you do, DO NOT SURRENDER. The only thing you can do to avoid having your head carved like a turkey is to fight to the death. Don't ever give up because your fate is sealed. So kill as many of us as you can and maybe you'll survive."

Keep in mind that
1: These guys are being paid for each kill / damaged vehicle... The more media coverage they get (read: the messier the kill), the more money they get paid.
2: That getting your head chopped off in their eyes is seen as a honourable way to die, especially for an infidel.
3: In Iraq, the leading figures of the insurgency are former secret service and saddam-era death squads... these guys don't know any other way to tell their message.

[quote]The thing I don't get is the torturing prisoners thing.