Another tricky one

[beaky]

That Ryan was just a throwaway- anybody care to name this beast?

[C]

Looks interesting- must be Italian...

[Hagar]

From the No Smoking sign above the door it's French - or an Italian aircraft in France.

I have no idea what it is though.

[C]

From the No Smoking sign above the door it's French - or an Italian aircraft in France.

I have no idea what it is though.

Neither have I - thought it may have been something from Mr Caproni and one of his ridiculous ducted fans...

[beaky]

You're all doing well, so I will grant you that it is in fact French. But this is one of the designs that inspired  Caproni- not the other way around. Predates his "tunnel planes" by quite a bit...

[Saratoga]

Looking at the photo it's definetly a very very early design. Still using wing warping and a forward and aft tailplane. It's built by a factory, not an individual I would guess, since it appears there is a plane on the left side of the picture.

[beaky]

Looking at the photo it's definetly a very very early design. Still using wing warping and a forward and aft tailplane. It's built by a factory, not an individual I would guess, since it appears there is a plane on the left side of the picture.

Not sure how many were produced, but I will tell you that if you look closer (the wires attached to the main wing are just for bracing), you'll see that instead of warping the main wing, they tried ailerons on the canard! Those tips rotated...I doubt it was very controllable in flight, if it ever got off the ground.

[C]

Not sure how many were produced, but I will tell you that if you look closer (the wires attached to the main wing are just for bracing), you'll see that instead of warping the main wing, they tried ailerons on the canard! Those tips rotated...I doubt it was very controllable in flight, if it ever got off the ground.

I wouldn't be so sure about that - I suspect this aircraft uses a combination of elevators on the foreplane and conventional tail. They appear very similar to the elavators that appear on types such as the Bleriot XI - ie a central tail section, with all moving outer surfaces...

[beaky]

I wouldn't be so sure about that - I suspect this aircraft uses a combination of elevators on the foreplane and conventional tail. They appear very similar to the elavators that appear on types such as the Bleriot XI - ie a central tail section, with all moving outer surfaces...

The magazine I got this from claims those little paddles on the canard are ailerons, and I believe it. The rigging on the wings doesn't look like warping gear to me, and it sort of looks like those two paddles are set at slightly different angles in this photo (one up slightly, one down slightly- remember that even on modern planes, the aileron in its up position is not as far off the edge of the wing as it is when down). I should probably do a little more research on this thing, though...
But how about its name? Anybody? Here's a hint: it's a French proper name; male.

[Rifleman]

Pegoud ?

[beaky]

Nope. I just realized that it's also an English name, technically... and of course when I do reveal it, everyone will just sit there and blink, because it's not a famous airplane at all. I couldn't find any  info at all on this thing online...

[C]

Claude...

[beaky]

No. This is devolving into "20 Questions", so I'll give.
It's a Bertrand, ca. 1910, and that's all I know, other than the claimed function of those canrd paddles. Interesting, though, that its tunnel-fuselage design predates even Caproni's first efforts.
Get ready for the next one...!

[Woodlouse2002]

I've never met an Englishman called Bertrand.

[Hagar]

I've never met an Englishman called Bertrand.

Bertrand Russell? I never met him either but I'm sure there are others.

Well done Rotty. That was a real stumper. One thing though, surely these pioneers tested their brilliant ideas by building a flying (or not) model first? Or maybe that never occurred to them.