FW190 - TA 152 ?????

[Professor Brensec]

I was browsing a website the other day, very interesting too...........caled 'LuftwaffeExprten.com'.

It has a section on the Aircraft as well as the Aces etc.'

There was a sizeable history of the FW190, how it came about, when and why it was released for active service, what the roles were etc. All very good, but there was also a bit devoted to the Ta152.

Excuse my ignorance, but I always thought that the 152 was a 'different' plane, although made by FW and designed by Tank etc.

The impression I am getting from this 'write-up' is that the Ta152 was actually a version of the 'Long Nosed Dora' which was, at that stage, renamed in honour of Tank, the designer for FW.

Is the Ta152 simply an updated version of the FW190 (Long Nosed Dora)??, or is it, as I have always been led to believe, a similar (actually very much the same) but still different project. In fact, a more advanced project, specifically designed to meet the needs and overcome the short comings of the FW's??

Clarification please??............

[Felix/FFDS]

The Ta152 is basically a development of the Dora (although I believe it's lineage is more through the "C" rahter than the D)

[Professor Brensec]

I see. Thanks.

Was the FW-190 still being manufactured as a separate entity when the Ta152 was??

[Felix/FFDS]

I see. Thanks.

Was the FW-190 still being manufactured as a separate entity when the Ta152 was??

Through the end of the war/manufacturing you had the -A, F (ground attack), D and Ta152 models.

Many Stuka units were either requipped with, or had some -F models added to their equipment.


the FW-190S was the 2-seat trainer version.

As an aside, some final production FW-190 built in France were used by the French Air Force through 1948.

[Rifleman]

Wasn't the TA-152 a high altitude, high aspect ratio version, of the 190, but built by a factory other than the FW works ?.....I may have been led to believe that was the case, but don't really have any verification for it ?............

[Felix/FFDS]

Wasn't the TA-152 a high altitude, high aspect ratio version, of the 190, but built by a factory other than the FW works ?.....I may have been led to believe that was the case, but don't really have any verification for it ?............

It was still built by FW, but the "Ta"  designation came about for its designer Kurt Tank.

[Professor Brensec]

Just to keep the FW/Ta conversation alive.......lol, I don't seem to recall (without much effort) a fighter that was armed as well, both in terms of the size guns and, especially, the amount of ammo.

The later FW190 had the two 13mm guns on the nose, with 'about' 950 rounds all up. But also the 20mm canon with 'about' 600 rounds (a terrible lot of cannon ammo compared to pretty much anything else).

I've read more on the site I was talking about before ( www.luftwaffe-experten.com ) and I find that among the German Aces there were many who managed, especially on the Eastern Front, to shoot down multiple planes in the one mission. The most I think I recall reading was 13 planes in one mission!!!

How the hell do you shoot down 13 planes in one mission?? They almost always did this sort of thing in the FW190, simply because of the amount of ammo available, but still, that almost seems impossible, considering the rate at which a fighter's ammo is usually depleted.

Does anyone know the greatest amount of planes (any type) shot down by an Allied Fighter Pilot in WWII??

I think myself, it would have to have been in the Pacific theatre, due to the propensity for the Japanese planes to be shot down more easily, but then, I may be wrong, I suppose.

P.S. I just found this tidbit (although I wouldn't venture to guess how much ammo this thing carried??)

Later versions of the FW 190A featured up to six 20 mm cannon (FW 190A6R1)

[Hagar]

Does anyone know the greatest amount of planes (any type) shot down by an Allied Fighter Pilot in WWII??

I think myself, it would have to have been in the Pacific theatre, due to the propensity for the Japanese planes to be shot down more easily, but then, I may be wrong, I suppose.

Hi Brensec. This subject was covered in an earlier thread in the History forum. http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=history;action=display;num=1084450245
This seems to be the record for an Allied pilot unless anyone knows different.

Capt. William Shomo of the Fifth Air Force (USA) downed seven aircraft (1 G4M 'Betty' and 6 Ki-61 'Tony's) in one sortie over the island of Luzon on January 11th, 1945 while flying a F-6D (photo-recon version of the P-51D).

I'm not sure about the Soviet aces on the Eastern Front.

[Professor Brensec]

Thanks Hagar. I knew it had to be in the Pacific among all those 'Zippos'...........

This answers Rifle's query. It seems there were High and Low versions of each plane...................

The extended wing (14.5m), high altitude Ta 152H was indeed a sterling performer with a top speed of 755 km/h (472 mph) and a service ceiling of 15,000 m (49,215 ft). It was armed with a 30 mm cannon in the nose and two 20 mm cannon in the wing roots. Had it been built in enough numbers and been flown by expert pilots it could have taken its place alongside the Me 262 as a near unbeatable air superiority fighter and bomber killer. The lower altitude version, the Ta 152C, barely made it out of the test phase before the war ended. Total Ta 152 production barely exceeded 200 aircraft.

[Professor Brensec]

I just read thru that thread Hagar, and if this account is true, then this bloke (Eric Rudorffer) takes the Honours!!

He scored seven victories in seven minutes on October 11, but his finest achievement occurred on November 6 when in the course of 17 minutes, thirteen Russian aircraft fell to his guns!

13 in 17 minutes. That's some pretty fancy shooting. I wonder if any were a result of 'crashing into another'. I've read accounts where - if a pilot shot down a plane that hit another, and csused it to crash, the pilot got credit for both etc.

I wonder................................

Truly an amzing fellow, though...............

In all, Erich Rudorffer scored a total of 222 victories, placing him 7th on the all time list. This score did not come without a cost: Rudorffer flew over 1,000 missions, never took leave, was shot down 16 times, and 'hit the silk' 9 times! Of note are the 58 Il-2 Sturmoviks included in his 136 Eastern Front victories (all while flying the Fw 190) and the 10 4-engine bombers shot down in Defense of the Reich missions.

Erich Rudorffer survived the war and continued his aviation career as a member of the West German aviation agency. He is now a retired commercial pilot living in Germany. He does not discuss his Luftwaffe career.