Tri-Motors and Flying Boats

[FLYING_TRUCKER]

Well I spoke this week too a Royal Canadian Air Force pilot who also flew in the Royal Air Force while partaking in several beers at the Royal Canadian Legion about thirty-five minutes from us.

The gentleman was here visiting one of his sons (a pilot) now stationed at Canadian Forces Base Trenton.

We spoke for several hours about Tri-motor aircraft and Flying Boats.

The Tri-motor aircraft he seemed to have knowledge on and spoke highly of were:
(1) Italian..Savoia-Marchetti SM79
(2) German...Junkers JU 52

[Mictheslik]

For Russia Beriev might be a start;

Beriev

Famed for their jet powered flying boats....started manufacturing in 1932

The photos section of that sight is particularly good.

What also comes to mind is the Dornier Do X for Germany....the biggest plane of its time

Do X

Hope that's of interest.

.mic

[Woodlouse2002]

There were some pre war Italian flying boats. All looking fairly like the Supermarine Walrus with the hull beneith biplane wings with the engines slung between. They all look rather fragile though. I think actually they may have been copys of other Supermarine designs.

As for british Trimotors, I personally cannot think of an example. And Russia and Japan I have no idea of, though I think you'd be surprised what a brief search brought up.

[FLYING_TRUCKER]

Hi Mic and Woodlouse:  

Thanks for the reply's and the information.

You know what fellas, I am not sure I even posted this in the right spot, however I am fortunate to have been in contact with this wonderful person even for several hours and I wanted to pass what I knew (if very little) about our conversation on to you all.  :)

I guess what I am trying to say is it is wonderful, exhilarating to meet a person like this, being treated as an equal, and forming a bond which will be cherished for years.

This gentleman will not be on Simviation for awhile as he does not own a computer  :o , however the old girl and I have his home address, phone number and a bit of family information.
We expect to see him in the Spring of 2007 in person, he is now on our Christmas mailing list and monthly phone list.  We like to keep in touch with family and friends and they keep in touch with us.

Hope I am not off topic too far here but over the next couple of months we shall speak to him about the benefits of a computer, the wonderful world of simviation and  that is where I shall drop it.

I have learned too many times you can lead a horse to water but, you can't make him drink.

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug

[Felix/FFDS]

On the subject of "amphibians" vs "flying boats", you may want to consider that the Chinese HAMC (Harbin Aircraft Manufacturing Corporation) SH-5  (Westernized PS-5) is a four engined (turboprops) martitime patrol and ASW flying boat with retractable beaching gear, not strictly "landing"  gear.

THen there's the Shin Meiwa SS-2A amphibian....

OF course, these are but two (modern) of the many flying boats / amphibians designed and built over the years.

THink of anything by Curtiss (pre-WW1)  the Boeing and Martin Clippers, Consolidated Commodore,  the Felixstowe 'boats, just about anything by Supermarine (other than the Spit, and even that got floats put on - and post WW2 offerings), Shorts, Fairey....

[Woodlouse2002]

The Short Sunderland wasn't converted into an Amphibian because it was a dedicated flying boat. It had no need to come ashore except for occasional beaching (presumably for bottom scrubs etc) where the beaching gear was more than suitable. There's also the question of where to store the undercarriage, which couldn't be done without cutting down on space inside the aircraft for the crew of which there could be 11+ on board.

Another reason is, if you've got what is essentially a boat, you don't want to go cutting holes through the hull for wheels do you?

[Woodlouse2002]

Fairey....

Aside from the Swordfish, which did have floats attached, I wasn't aware of a great flying boat history with Fairey. I mean, Shorts and Supermarine were major flying boat companies, hence the marine in the name of Supermarine. Fairey on the other hand, as far as I'm aware were builders of aeroplanes with wheels.

There were of course though two branches of Fairey. Fairey Aviation and Fairey Marine. But each branch seemed to stick to their titles, Aviation made planes, Marine made boats.

(Inless of course you want to count Uffa Fox's airbourne lifeboat. )


Edit: Forgot about the Fairey Seafox. But, that and the Swordfish with floats were floatplanes, not flying boats as the topic is on. Details details...

[Felix/FFDS]

Woody, true enough.  I was pointing out that the UK seaplane (lumping floatplanes, amphibians, and flying boats together) sector was quite alive, especially in the between the wars era.

As an aside, I always thought Fairey (UK) was a floatplane builder that added landing gear to their designs..  

[Hagar]

I can think of one British tri-motor offhand. I'm sure there are more.

The Airspeed AS.4 Ferry.

Note that this example is powered by two upright Gipsy II & a single inverted Gipsy III in the centre.

I believe four were built, two being supplied to Sir Alan Cobham's 'Flying Circus' to his own specification for a general purpose & pleasure flying aircraft. http://www.jaapteeuwen.com/ww2aircraft/html%20pages/airspeed%20as4%20ferry.htm A point of interest; the famous author Neville Shute (Norway) was Joint Managing Director of Airspeed Ltd when it was first formed in 1931.

Dornier DO 24 Flying Boat

One example is still airworthy although it's been updated with modern turbprop engines. It has also been converted from a pure flying boat into an amphibian. http://www.do-24.com/
I was lucky enough to see the Do 24ATT two years ago at the 2004 Battle of Britain weekend at Biggin Hill where I got some reasonable photos of this unique aircraft, some in formation with the Plane Sailing Canso. I posted them in the Photos forum at the time & will look them out if anyone's interested. Here's one to be going on with.


It was demonstrated by Iren Dornier, grandson of Dr. Claude Dornier himself.

PS. Just thought of another one. Not British but loosely based on the DH.104 Dove.The DHA-3 Drover.

[Woodlouse2002]

[quote]Woody, true enough.

[Hagar]

More British tri-motors (in date order):

Handley Page W8F Hamilton (1924) & W9 Hampstead. 10 - 12 passenger airliner operated by Imperial Airways and Sabena. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handley_Page_W8

De Havilland DH.66 Hercules. First flew in 1926. Pioneered several Imperial Airways long-distance routes. http://www.century-of-flight.net/Aviation%20history/coming%20of%20age/imperial/de%20havilland%20dh66%20hercules.htm

Armstrong-Whitworth Argosy. This is the original 1926 model - not to be confused with the much later "Whistling Wheelbarrow". http://www.century-of-flight.net/Aviation%20history/coming%20of%20age/imperial/armstrong%20whitworth%20argosy.htm

Westland Wessex (1928 ). This is the original airliner - not the more well-known helicopter. http://www.century-of-flight.net/Aviation%20history/coming%20of%20age/imperial/westland%20wessex.htm

Avro 618 Ten (1929). This is the British licence-buit version of the Fokker Fokker F.VIIB/3m. http://www.century-of-flight.net/Aviation%20history/coming%20of%20age/imperial/avro%20618%20ten.htm

3-engined flying boat:

Short S8 Calcutta (1926). http://www.century-of-flight.net/Aviation%20history/coming%20of%20age/imperial/Short%20S8%20Calcutta.htm

[Felix/FFDS]

Let's not forget the AVRO X (AVRO 10) ... but that was a license built Fokker F.VII/3m  

Hagar - Also, I KNOW there's a Vickers(?) transport model that was built as a single, twin, and three engined version  ca. 1924....:?

[Hagar]

[quote]Hagar - Also, I KNOW there's a Vickers(?) transport model that was built as a single, twin, and three engined version

[Woodlouse2002]

Ok. Hadn't really done my homework on that.

Found a couple more trimotor flying boats though. The Blackburn Perth and the Blackburn Iris.

[Hagar]

Ok. Hadn't really done my homework on that.

Found a couple more trimotor flying boats though. The Blackburn Perth and the Blackburn Iris.

I found a couple of Fairey flying boats but lost the link now. Wish I could be more specific. The history of the early days of Fairey Aviation seems a little obscure.

I don't think the flying boats need to be tri-motors. That must deserve a bonus.

Another British tri-motor. I forgot the Spartan Cruiser. http://www.jaapteeuwen.com/ww2aircraft/html%20pages/SPARTAN%20CRUISER.htm