Simviation Forums

As I have mentioned a few times around the forums here, I work in the engineering dept at Waco Classic Aircraft Corporation. What many people do not know is that the WACO YMF-5 was and will be the ONLY aircraft to be brought back into production if its TC (Type Certificate) was in the hands of the FAA (public domain).

We are bring the Great Lakes 2T-1A-2 back only because its Type Certificate (TC) was NOT in the public domain (FAA's hands) but privately held. This means that if ANY vintage plane's TC is not owned by someone, there is 0 chance it will come back into production. I dont know about you folks, but that irritates the crap out of me!

That said, the FAA apparently will allow limited re-builds of vintage aircraft off the original plans only if they stay classified as 'experimental' or 'exhibition' and are strictly private (as in no production).

To make the possible resurrection of your favorite vintage birds even harder, many of the private owners (from what I have heard) are being incredibly difficult. For example, whoever owns the TC for the amphib Great Lakes apparently wants no less than $10 MILLION for the TC regardless of production quantity.

Although I am hearing rumors that this situation might change, it has been in place since the YMF-5 production was restarted back in ~1986. Considering how long this situation has been in place and the fact it involves the US gov't bureaucracy, I am not hopeful.

Anyways, a little insight into the frankly odd situation we are in here at WACO Classic.

By the way, for those that know about the "kilroy was here" cartoon, I found kilroy in a drawing for the Great Lakes!

Yup, without a TC, to put it in plane ( ) and simple language, you are bolloxed. You hear the question, why don't they build a new run of XYZ warbird, they would sell like hotcakes. Yes they would, but without a type certificate you could not drill the fist whole. With the experimental certification, for most people who could afford this sort of build, that stamp across the paperwork is enough for them to walk away. They want the real thing.
Holding a TC to ransom, to an certain extent I can understand, but the price has to be a reasonable one. The amount of money you could sell a rebuild run for is a reflection of the TC price. Saying that, if for example you held the Spitfire TC then I would hold onto that until someone was willing to pay so much I could afford a house full of staff until the end of my days

Matt

PS, the YMF-5D is a nice looking aircraft. It looks a bit like a Steerman that has been modified to fly in bi-plane air race at Reno

Interesting posts...much appreciated...please keep us informed...

It is kinda miraculous that you can produce those YMF-5s (and a fine product it is)... the current rules are ridiculous.
On the other hand, you can also buy a new Cub, Silvaire or Champ... but thanks to the liability industry, it will still cost you about 5 or 6 times what you'd pay for a very nice 60-year-old one, with many good years left in it. 

I found out that the brothers that started WACO Classic in the 80s (then just Classic Aircraft Corp) had friends in the FAA. Over the years WACO Classic has developed a strong relationship with the FAA and thus have garnered their good graces (oh joy  ).

At any rate, I can tell you from a first hand experience, getting the TC is very hard but the actual work of getting the planes built is just insane. Great Lakes 2T-1A-2 Serial # 01 from us is taking so long because the 3 of us in the engineering dept have literally thousands of different parts to re-draw, check, make jigs, then check the hundreds of assembly drawings, and if any changes are made do the Request-Drawing-Change (RDC) process. The WACO RDC process is straight forward, but the Great Lakes is a mess. Each part number has 3 separate drawings (1 working drawing 1 approved vendors, and 1 more that seems to be for the heck of it). Every time a part changes ALL the assembly drawings above it need to be updated...So lets say a certain bracket WAS made out of .083 thick steel but all that is available NOW is .081...bam..RDC time.

So in short it is a mess. BUT holy crap this work is rewarding! There is very little that beats the feeling of breathing life into an old plane. Especially considering how adored the YMF is and the Great Lakes. I am definitely a big fan of the Great Lakes now. While doing research on a few side projects on it I came across many ardent Great Lakes fans, numerous restorations in full swing in the US and Europe, and hordes of forums about it. Proof that planes are not just machines  8-)
THAT is why I am at WACO Classic.