Simviation Forums

... in British history, nabbed from Guardian Unlimited today!

The British government operated a secret torture centre during the second world war to extract information and confessions from German prisoners, according to official papers which have been unearthed by the Guardian.
More than 3,000 prisoners passed through the centre, where many were systematically beaten, deprived of sleep, forced to stand still for more than 24 hours at a time and threatened with execution or unnecessary surgery.
Some are also alleged to have been starved and subjected to extremes of temperature in specially built showers, while others later complained that they had been threatened with electric shock torture or menaced by interrogators brandishing red-hot pokers.
The centre, which was housed in a row of mansions in one of London's most affluent neighbourhoods, was carefully concealed from the Red Cross, the papers show. It continued to operate for three years after the war, during which time a number of German civilians were also tortured.
A subsequent assessment by MI5, the Security Service, concluded that the commanding officer had been guilty of "clear breaches" of the Geneva convention and that some interrogation methods "completely contradicted" international law.
On at least one occasion, an MI5 officer noted in a newly declassified report, a German prisoner was convicted of war crimes and hanged on the basis of a confession which he had signed after he was, at the very least, "worked on psychologically". A number of people who appeared as prosecution witnesses at war crimes trials are also alleged to have been tortured.
The official papers, discovered in the National Archives, depict the centre as a dark, brutal place which caused great unease among senior British officers. They appear to have turned a blind eye partly because of the usefulness of the information extracted, and partly because the detainees were thought to deserve ill treatment.
Not all the torture centre's secrets have yet emerged, however: the Ministry of Defence is continuing to withhold some of the papers almost 60 years after it was closed down.

Amazing how the more things change the more they stay the same

I think some people are a little too touchy about the subject of torture to extract information. Definatly something that shouldn't be allowed, but the simple fact it happens shouldn't exactly come as a surprise. but  :-X

This doesn't surprise me & other distateful things might well come out once those records are declassified. I heard that some of these records have 'mysteriously' disappeared which doesn't surprise me either.

However, you must appreciate that this is the Guardian which makes it suspect. I don't trust much that I read in the average newspaper & that goes double for the Guardian.

Doesn't surprise me at all. War doesn't pretend to be a nice business, and to be fair there can't be many (if any) countries who haven't operated similar centres in times of war, particularly in such a conflict as WWII, and if they denied they existed I wouldn't believe them. There are always going to be some people who you want more information than their name rank and number in the interest of your own nation. To be fair we also train our own forces today to expect that kind of treatment after capture anyway...

I don't deny that many things have been done by this country over the years that most people would rather not know about. I find it strange that not one of the 3,000 prisoners that were allegedly tortured ever told anyone about it. I would have thought this would have come out long ago if there's any truth to it, even if the Government & MoD strenuously denied it.

I find it strange that not one of the 3,000 prisoners that were allegedly tortured ever told anyone about it. I would have thought this would have come out long ago if there's any truth to it, even if the Government & MoD strenuously denied it.

A very fair point...

Also, come to think of it, I find the timing of the report disgusting. They did not have to publish such a story on Remembrance weekend in another press smear on the British armed forces...

Aye tis not the best timing, but alas it is the only online newspaper I can get here (since the Times started subscription only viewing).
I am not surprised no Germans came forward however as I think they'd have been treated with contempt after what happened over in their neck of the woods.... also I suspect that most of these people were probably spies not soldiers and therefore the Geneva Convention doesn't apply.

Aye tis not the best timing, but alas it is the only online newspaper I can get here (since the Times started subscription only viewing).

Must admit I wondered why you're always quoting from that rag.

I am not surprised no Germans came forward however as I think they'd have been treated with contempt after what happened over in their neck of the woods.... also I suspect that most of these people were probably spies not soldiers and therefore the Geneva Convention doesn't apply.

I was also wondering who these prisoners were & when they were captured. I doubt very much that any member of the German forces was mistreated. Not only would we almost certainly have found out about it in various memoirs published over the last 60 years but also if this had been discovered or even suspected it would have affected the treatment of our own PoWs in German hands.

Must admit I wondered why you're always quoting from that rag.

I was also wondering who these prisoners were & when they were captured. I doubt very much that any member of the German forces was mistreated.

I suppose thats why several thousand decided to stay here after the war...

Sad and truly shameful, but war is bloody and although one cannot use the other side as an excuse - just look what Hitler was up to. Yet it was not a case of our soldiers die or theres over a quibble of some sort it was The WHOLE nation die or some of their soldiers. Quite frankly, terrible though it was, this war was no ordinary war and millions were dying and it had to be a case of stopping the German invasion of the UK - however it was done. It is all very well for us to look back and say whatever, but Hitler had conquered the whole of Europe and was wanting Britain. It was a certainty that weirdly never happened. It is still amazing to think of and the officials back in Britain despite what they said probably though defeat was imminent.

Oh and for papers my favourites are the Telegraph and the Daily Mail.

I suppose thats why several thousand decided to stay here after the war...

Indeed. Like one of my close neighbours. He liked it here so much that he stayed, married an English girl & raised a family.

Indeed. Like one of my close neighbours. He liked it here so much that he stayed, married an English girl & raised a family.

The same here and elswehere: early post-war, their home neighborhoods were, well, basically, not.

You chaps were the ones who devised drawing and quartering and keelhauling, weren't you?

Jolly good fun and a great way to instill discipline among the masses.

Cheerio!

Tisnt bad timing at all. Its good to see the awful truth when we live in an era that doesnt full appreciate the horrors of war.
Still, nasty business!


A.

P.S Its the Guardian after all, socialist newspapers always tint the facts.