WWII Code Names

[Hagar]

[quote]Re: the radio "fight them on the beaches speech" ... I seem to recall it revealed in the past year or so that it wasn't actually delivered by Sir Winston himself, but by an actor who often did "voice double" work for the P.M. when he wasn't available.

[Hagar]

[quote]Re: the radio "fight them on the beaches speech" ... I seem to recall it revealed in the past year or so that it wasn't actually delivered by Sir Winston himself, but by an actor who often did "voice double" work for the P.M. when he wasn't available.

[Felix/FFDS]

Well. That's a new one on me. I've heard of doubles being used of course but not in this way. I'm pretty sure it's not true as Winnie was a master orator.

If you can remember where you saw it maybe you can post details.

http://www.powell-pressburger.org/Revie ... ley01.html

Basically - Churchill delivered his speech to the House of Commons, in 1940, portions of which were read over the BBC - but - key - it was not broadcast "live".

[Hagar]

Thanks Felix. Did you spot this at the bottom of the page?

Update:
It has since been determined that Norman Shelley didn't broadcast any of Churchill's speeches. The famous "We shall fight them on the beaches" speech was never broadcast on the BBC in its entirety.

If Shelley recorded the speech on 7 September 1942, as the record label says, why did he do it? Churchill originally delivered the speech to the House of Commons over two years earlier, and did not broadcast it at that time (portions were read by a BBC announcer). Churchill did record the speech himself - at Chartwell after the war - and it was ultimately released by Decca Records. Assuming the label to be correct, the time lag makes it clear that Shelley did not record the speech to be broadcast when German invasion was imminent. So perhaps it was intended to be used subsequently in a propaganda film. It will be interesting to see what emerges from tests carried out on the record. If the recording turns out to be genuine, it may prove that Shelley was used during the war as a Churchill voice double. But it is a huge leap to say that, just because there is evidence he recorded this Churchill speech in 1942, that he delivered BBC broadcasts in the summer of 1940.
What then was Sensimetrics analyzing? According to scholar Stephen Bungay, writing in FINEST HOUR 112 (Autumn 2001), the British Council asked Churchill to record the "Beaches" speech after the war: "Churchill suggested they use an actor instead. Shelley did the recording, Churchill heard it, was much amused, and gave his approval....It is not known for sure when, if at all, his recording was used." We may be fairly sure that Sensimetrics used it...

The Executive Committee of the Churchill Center

[Felix/FFDS]

Thanks Felix. Did you spot this at the bottom of the page?

Yes  I did - that was why I emphasized the comment that the "real" speech was given in H/Commons, and not broadcast "live"...

So we can conlude, reasonably, that both statements are true in this case - Churchill gave the speech and that there was a recording of it done by an actor.

[Smoke2much]

Doesn't this all belong in the Churchill trivia section?

[Hagar]

That might be true Will but as it was bought up here I would like to clear it up.

From what I can make out from the resources I have, the 'We shall fight them on the beaches' speech was never broadcast live or in its entirety. What was broadcast were recorded extracts of Winnie's actual speech, both on & after the day he made it in the House of Commons - 4 June 1940.

The recording by the actor Norman Shelley referred to in the article from Felix's link was apparently made some time afterwards, over 2 years later - 7 September 1942. For whatever reason this recording might have been made it seems that it was never used.

[Professor Brensec]

1. What is 'NPR', that Geko is referring to??  ???
 
2. As far as the 'German Invasion' being 'believed' by Churchill. I haven't read Churchills account of his War years. What doe he say in that? Does anyone recall?  ???

3. I know (for sure) that Churchill used a 'Physical double' (as did most leaders during that time), but I'v also never heard of the 'voice double' business.
I'm sure there were plenty of people (impressionists) who could have, and still could, do a convincing 'Churchill', but I'm pretty sure that he wouldn't have used one unless it was a matter of the 'utmost importance' that he couldn' attend to. And certainly not his most famous, stirring and ultimately the one which 'whipped up the spirit' of the people.  ;D

I've seen the History Channel Doco on Churchill ad there is no mention of this. They also interviewed people eho had worked with him i.e. his private Secretary etc, and again, no mention of anything of the sort.

I know that if there was any controversy, they could easy analyse the voice recordings. They have a machine (in fact it's many years old now), that can tell the difference between the 'voice waves' of people and their 'impressionists'.
Actually, when I saw this copmparison, many years ago, I was amazed at how different two voices looked (in waves) that sounded exactly the same (the demo was of Rich Little doing Jimmy Stewart - which, if you are familiar, is an extremely good impression). The waves are very very different, so they could tell!!  ;D

[Smoke2much]

I've got his account in my bag with me.  Give me ten minutes Steve.......

[Smoke2much]

The Second World War abridged version Pimlico Books
Winston Churchill
Book 2 "Alone: May 10, 1940 - June 22 1941"
Chapter 10
pp331

All this while we could not feel any assurance that the inlets and river mouths from Calais to Terschelling and Heligoland, with all that swarm of islands off the Dutch and German coasts, might not conceal other large hostile forces with small or moderate-sized ships.  An attack from Harwich right round to Portsmouth, Portland or even Plymouth, centering on the Kent promontary, seemed to impend.

We now entered upon a period of extreme tension and vigilance.....

I hope this clafies it.

Will

[Air-Geko]

NPR (N.P.R.) = National Public Radio...  Sorry, I guess I should have used more punctuation.  They air shows such as "All Things Considered" as well as the news on my nightly drive home.  You'll most often find it on your local Classical radio station

Air-Geko

[BFMF]

My local NPR station is the only place where I can listen to BBC at night

[WebbPA]

Enigma - the German coding device.

I don't know whether that's what they called it or that's what the Allies called it but it fits.

[Hagar]

Enigma - the German coding device.

I don't know whether that's what they called it or that's what the Allies called it but it fits.

Jim. I agree that Enigma is an excellent name for a coding machine but it gives no clue as to how it actually works. I visited Bletchley Park last year & saw several examples of these & other WWII coding machines. I now have a rough idea of their history & how they actually work.

The first practical Enigma machine was produced in 1918 by Arthur Scherbius in Berlin. It was intended for commercial use & actually based on idea patented by a Dutchman, H. A. Koch. The silly thing being that nobody at the time realised its military potential except for the German services.

http://pan.net/history/enigma/index.htm

[OTTOL]

Jim. I agree that Enigma is an excellent name for a coding machine but it gives no clue as to how it actually works.

American Heritage definition/ enigma one that is puzzling, ambiguous or inexplicable

True, this probably doesn't fall under your original guidelines and stipulations. I don't think the inventor labeled his own work "puzzling"! But I do get a chuckle out of what I envision as the true source of the title. Probably the clerk at the military supply depot.

NPR, if you guys over across both ponds haven't figured it out, is Public Radio in the US. I know you broke down the acronym Gecko, but don't forget, that a lot of these guys(the majority it seems like ) are not from the US.

How about a change of theater(you Brits are hogging all the action).   Kamikaze- Divine Wind    What is the   original "divine wind". This term doesn't have a hidden meaning, but it's not just a colorful propaganda ploy either.