WWII Code Names

[Hagar]

American Heritage definition/ enigma one that is puzzling, ambiguous or inexplicable

True, this probably doesn't fall under your original guidelines and stipulations. I don't think the inventor labeled his own work "puzzling"! But I do get a chuckle out of what I envision as the true source of the title. Probably the clerk at the military supply depot.

NPR, if you guys over across both ponds haven't figured it out, is Public Radio in the US. I know you broke down the acronym Gecko, but don't forget, that a lot of these guys(the majority it seems like ) are not from the US.

I can't find anything to back it up but I think the inventor actually gave it the name to market it under. Enigma was orginally intended for commercial purposes - company security etc.

[quote]How about a change of theater(you Brits are hogging all the action).

[Felix/FFDS]

[quote]
How about a change of theater(you Brits are hogging all the action).

[Hagar]

Ashamed to say I had to resort to Google.

Kamikaze (from Kami - "god" and kaze - "wind") means 'divine wind' in Japanese. It refers to the typhoon which saved Japan from a Mongol invasion fleet in 1281.

By extension, during World War II the word came to be used for desperate suicide attacks, particularly by aircraft assigned to destroy US and Allied ships by flying directly into them.
http://www.japan-101.com/history/kamikaze.htm

The record breaking aircraft I was thinking of was the Mitsubishi Ki-15. I believe the techniques used on the record breaking flight were adopted with great success by the Japanese military.

Two prototypes of the Ki-15 two seat reconnaissance aircraft were built, one military and one civil. It went into service with the army in 1937 as the Army Type 97 Model 1. The civil prototype J-BAAI made a record breaking flight in April 1937 from Tachikawa Japan to Croydon England and return in just over 51 hours! Named "Kamakaze" it also collected film of the coronation of King George VI for the Asahi newspaper office. The Ki-15 saw action over China and was upgraded with more powerful engines and towards the end of the war they were used in kamikaze attacks. The Navy ordered twenty as the Navy Type 98 Model 1. In all 489 were built, powered by a 640 hp Nakajima HA-8 radial engine and had a span of 12m and length of 8.7m.
http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/portland/971/Reviews/japanese/ki-15-babs.htm

[OTTOL]

The term dates back to 1274, and the invasion of Japan by Kublai Khan. The Mongol armies sailed an armada across the Sea of Japan, in what were undoubtedly superior numbers but as if by miracle, the invaders were repelled by a typhoon, drowning over 150,000 warriors. In 1281 the Mongols attempted a replay with the same results. The Japanese homeland had not been touched by foreign invaders in over 2,600 years and now with two certain defeats repelled by forces of nature, the Japanese now believed that they were saved through divine intervention.
KAMI (god) KAZE (wind)
I suppose this WAS a form of colorfull propaganda, because it was used, as you guys point out, in many instances of national pride and during times of need, from the standpoint of morale.
Speaking of "colorful propaganda", I'm just ribbing you guys Doug. Actually I enjoy and am impressed by, the knowledge that you guys posess. re; the Hogging all the Action, comment...............

[Hagar]

Speaking of "colorful propaganda", I'm just ribbing you guys Doug. Actually I enjoy and am impressed by, the knowledge that you guys posess. re; the Hogging all the Action, comment...............

I realise that OTTOL. I'm also ribbing you in my own way & learn something new here every single day.

I'm just a raw amateur compared with some of our members. The historical knowledge of some youngsters around here not only surprises but also impresses me. This is almost certainly due to their own interest & a passion for knowledge. Unfortunately I don't think they're taught this in school.

[Professor Brensec]

I realise that OTTOL. I'm also ribbing you in my own way & learn something new here every single day.

I'm just a raw amateur compared with some of our members. The historical knowledge of some youngsters around here not only surprises but also impresses me. This is almost certainly due to their own interest & a passion for knowledge. Unfortunately I don't think they're taught this in school.

Exactly Hagar. You may recall my commenting on exactly that when we were discussing the 'necessity' of a History Forum (the WWII idea would have been too 'limited' but then, it's doing OK so far!!  ;D )

I recall learning alot about WWII (and WWI, especially Gallipoli, The Somme, Pashendale etc) in 'Grade' school.
Alas, they don't see fit to teach any of this.
My kids, as intelligent and 'cluey' as they are in most things, know absolutely nothing of WWII or even Australias Part in it. It's extremely sad.

That's why I think this Forum is such a great idea and a good resource for the young blokes who will be doing History assignments etc  ;D

[Ivan]

Americans used some of the indian tribes to make up a code system for radio conversation of frontline troops in the pacific.

The signal name for the startof the atack on pearl harbour was 'east wind, rain'

'east wind' as they came flying from the east
'rain' quite obvious: bombing.

The americans had a name for the japanese coding machines... something with purple in it. they are not shown to the public as they never managed to break the coded messages of the thing until they got hold of one

[Hagar]

The americans had a name for the japanese coding machines... something with purple in it. they are not shown to the public as they never managed to break the coded messages of the thing until they got hold of one

The same is true of Enigma but as it is no longer secret I see no reason for not making it public. However, genuine examples of Enigma machines are extremely rare.

I discovered during my visit to Bletchley Park that the Japanese forces used the Enigma machine among others. There was a special section at Bletchley Park devoted to deciphering Japanese codes. They had some success but due to the language difficulty & number of letters involved this was slower than for the German section. Just how this Enigma machine differed from the German one I'm not sure but the thought of deciphering Japanese coded messages scrambles my brain.

The Germans manufactured Enigma machines for the Japanese Government but they were never received. "officially", they were lost when the German submarine tasked with the delivery was sunk. Japanese experts, having a very basic shared knowledge of the Enigma, created their own device. Only two surviving examples of the Japanese Enigma are known to exist.

http://webhome.idirect.com/~jproc/crypto/jap_enigma.html

[Hagar]

Americans used some of the indian tribes to make up a code system for radio conversation of frontline troops in the pacific.

The signal name for the startof the atack on pearl harbour was 'east wind, rain'

'east wind' as they came flying from the east
'rain' quite obvious: bombing.

I believe the recent feature film "Windtalkers" is based on the Navajo code talkers. I haven't seen it myself. http://www.mgm.com/windtalkers/

John Woo's Windtalkers centers on the relationships between the Marines and the Navajo code talkers that were assigned to protect during World War II. The code talkers transmitted messages using an unbreakable code based on their native language.

[WebbPA]

Get your NPR fix here http://www.publicradiofan.com/

(You have to read this thread from the beginning to understand this.)

[Hagar]

This thread seems to have gone quiet so I thought I would try to revive it. On reading further into "Most Secret War" I've found a few more interesting examples.

In late 1940 the Enigma code had been broken sufficiently for some of the Luftwaffe bombing targets to be identified in advance. The heavy night raid on Coventry on 14th November 1940 flattened much of the city & was the most devastating bombing raid Britain had experienced up till that point. Unfortunately the codebreakers could not decode the messages in time on this particular day, not that this would have changed anything. Previous decoded messages for a major operation by KG 100 named "Moonlight Sonata" often included the word KORN which translates to corn in English. This could have meant anything but it was later discovered that KORN was the name given to Coventry - or Koventry as it would be spelled in German.

After Coventry the Germans mounted a similar large attack under the code-name "Regeschirm" - meaning Umbrella. Neville Chamberlain was famous for carrying an umbrella & also associated with Birmingham. This turned out to be the target.

Another operation was named "Einheitspreis" which translates to "unit price". This was associated with stores like Woolworths where at the time most items or units cost sixpence. Sixpence is historically associated with the Town Comissioners at Wolverhampton*. This attack never took place & it was later discovered that it was the first operation to be directly cancelled as a result of the Bletchley Park codebreakers work. The Luftwaffe reconnaisance had noticed a big build up of AA guns & other defences around the proposed target which led them to believe the code had been completely broken. This was not in fact true as the target had been identified purely through nothing more than inspired guesswork.

I still find it strange that clues were given in these & other code names to enable someone with the appropriate knowledge to make a good guess as to their significance. It would surely have been better if the code names were chosen at random with no possible significance at all. I find it fascinating how intellectual minds work.

*PS. I was completely unaware of the connection between Wolverhampton & sixpence until a few minutes ago.
[quote]In 1777 Parliament passed an Improvement Act for Wolverhampton which appointed 125 Commissioners to run the town, together with the stewards of the old manor of the Deanery and Stowheath.

The Commissioners were named and were all local people with property worth more than

[Professor Brensec]

Sorry I've been off air the last few days people but I've been hard at work on my website.
I can't run up too many hours online at home because because, after the second week of the month in the billing cycle, if our online hours are in the '90th percentile' of users, they restrict our sessions to 20 minutes and you have to keep logging in.  >:(

Really have to get a new plan, or ISP altogether. With me doing this and Sharon studying, the hours go pretty quickly. I'll be at work tomorrow and Sunday (it's Friday here now) with a great cable connection, so I can work online and post in here at the same time, no problem.  ;D

Anyway, I better get onto some 'History' before this post gets moved for being in the wrong topic!!  ;D

Hagar, I've seen 'Windtalkers' and I enjoyed it immensely. I think it was a very late tribute to some extremely brave men!
The Navajo code talker's 'minder' (they were all assigned a personal minder - played by Nicholas Cage, in this instance) was under orders to protect the 'Windtalker' so he could do his job, but also so none of them fell into Jap hands. He was ordered to kill the Windtalker if it looked like there was a chance of this happening.  :o

One apparently did, in reality, get captured alive but never gave the code away the the enemy. I dread to think what he may have gone through (I don't know if he survived the war).  :(

They were a huge advantage to the Americans. Each unit's Navajo Code talker could convey orders, requests for support, intelligence and recon etc in seconds to another Navajo without any chance of the Japanese, who would certainly be listening in, having any idea what they were saying. This procedure could sometimes take ages for messages to be coded, sent by an operator, decoded and then taken to the appropriate person. There was also always the possibility that the enemy had broken your code.

With the Navajo language, known only to the tribe themselves and a few select specialist linguists, made absolutely no sense to other crypto-analysts, because it wasn't a 'code' as such, just an obscure language, which was known only by a few, which also didn't follow the same rules, forms and idioms as other languages.  ;D

[Professor Brensec]

By the way, it seems our new little Forum catagory is goin quite nicely. Thank you people. It';s very enjoyable to have somewhere to come and always find something very interesting to get involved in.  8)

Hagar wrote:

The heavy night raid on Coventry on 14th November 1940 flattened much of the city & was the most devastating bombing raid Britain had experienced up till that point. Unfortunately the codebreakers could not decode the messages in time on this particular day, not that this would have changed anything.

I always thought that Churchill knew about this raid ahead of time, because they had figured out the German 'radio beam' bomber navigation system. But he was faced with the dilemma of evacuating Coventry or defending it very heavily with AAA and night Fighters etc, and risk letting the Germans know their 'beams' had been discovered.  ???

Have I got my 'beams' crossed somehow, or is there something to this?  ???

By the way, Hagar, as far as Bletchley Park is concerned, if I ever get to the UK, it will be on my list of 'must sees'.
I've seen so many History Channel Docs on this place and the people that worked ther, that I feel I know the place inside out!!  ;D
It seems that whenever there is a Doco on some event in WWII, Bletchley is somehow involved.

I recall seeing a movie a while ago about Bletchley. Maybe someone else has seen it too?
It's about a bloke and a woman that work there, one of them turns out to be a Spy. It includes the 'episode' during the Atlantic War when the Germans had changed the Enigma code and they needed to get the Germans to send a pile of messages to their U-Boats so they could fill in some missing peices to the new code. They risked the safety of an entire convoy, hoping that the U-Boats would converge on it and they could get the missing bits they needed.
Has anyone seen this one??  ;D

[Hagar]

[quote]I always thought that Churchill knew about this raid ahead of time, because they had figured out the German 'radio beam' bomber navigation system. But he was faced with the dilemma of evacuating Coventry or defending it very heavily with AAA and night Fighters etc, and risk letting the Germans know their 'beams' had been discovered.

[WebbPA]

Here's one that is the opposite of the meaningful code names - meaningless code names.

The D-Day landing beaches names - Utah and Omaha - had no particular significance.  Neither did Mulberry - the artficial harbors.  Imagine the general staff's shock when these words appeared in crossword puzzles in the London Daily Telegraph a month before the landings.

If you have heard the story you have heard that it was chalked up to coincidence and the landings went off as planned.

Not so.  The words were overheard by a schoolboy who, fortunately, had no clue of their significance, and passed on to his schoolmaster, who published the crossword puzzles.

http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0206/feature1/