WW III

[H]

I rather reinforce Hagar on this but, as always, there are both rampant and subtle excuses. People try to justify their outlooks even if they must classify a particular group of people as a seperate, 'undeserving' species (as also done with the Jews). Sometimes the excuse is more irrational than the prejudice it's supposed to support.
The Middle East has been a war spot since 'civilization' began; the great Family Feud, whether they're willing to accept their closer lineage to one another or not.

:-/

[Hagar]

So, the question peace-loving nations are faced with and appears to be ignoring (especially in the UN) is how do you you engage such people with any hopes of arriving at a successful, honest, and peaceful outcome?

This is something that people far more clever than me seem unable to answer. I'm not sure there is an answer all the time that nations or ethnic groups see themselves as being oppressed by others. This is really nothng new. Have you noticed that the same old troublespots keep cropping up time after time? I read somewhere that there has only been one day since the end of WWII that there has not been an armed conflict somewhere in the world.

[expat]

So, the question peace-loving nations are faced with and appears to be ignoring (especially in the UN) is how do you you engage such people with any hopes of arriving at a successful, honest, and peaceful outcome?

It would appear the Peace Loving Nation seems to think that the end of a rifle barrel is the answer and that any other Peace Loving Nation that does not agree with the first Peace Loving Nation is only against said Peace Loving Nation. A certain Peace Loving Nation is a relative newcomer when it comes to being the victim of terrorism. Maybe they should listen to other nations that have been dealing with it for a lot longer.

If you feed a terrorist or fund a terrorist, you are a terrorist. Should be a lot of Peace Loving Nationals locked up then for funding the IRA then.

[Hagar]

If you feed a terrorist or fund a terrorist, you are a terrorist.

Good point but first define terrorist. One person's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. It also depends on who writes the history books. As things turned out members of the French Resistance are now regarded as heroes. If Germany had won the war they would have been the terrorists.

[dcunning30]

It would appear the Peace Loving Nation seems to think that the end of a rifle barrel is the answer and that any other Peace Loving Nation that does not agree with the first Peace Loving Nation is only against said Peace Loving Nation.

Your point is well understood.  It is unfortunate that we have war, but peace at any cost has never secured peace, but subjugation.  And endless talking to those who have agressive and violent intentions do nothing but cause those with the violent intentions to express contempt toward the endless talkers.

History is replete with examples of these points.  Why should things suddenly change now?  Negotiations can only succeed if all parties are willing to express good faith and a willingness to resolve problems with solutions that are mutually palatable.

[gryshnak]

[quote]Using an event 1000 years ago to explain away or justify current events is pretty lame.

[TacitBlue]

...And if your post was in response to mine: I never said they did all I said was that I can't understand someone committing suicide over a difference of opinion. I thought I made a special point not to mention Muslims. My point is that it does the individual no good to die just to further their beliefs. If that individual believes it does, then that is beyond my understanding.

[expat]

...And if your post was in response to mine: I never said they did all I said was that I can't understand someone committing suicide over a difference of opinion. I thought I made a special point not to mention Muslims. My point is that it does the individual no good to die just to further their beliefs. If that individual believes it does, then that is beyond my understanding.

That is the problem, as Westerners, we can't and never will be able to understand or accept fundamentalism, in the same way I cannot understand that in some American schools, Evolution is not allowed to be taught, because some religious zealots have said so. Removing the suicide element, there is no difference

[Hagar]

That is the problem, as Westerners, we can't and never will be able to understand or accept fundamentalism,

Fundamentalism is defined as the strict adherence to any set of basic ideas or principles. It is not restricted to any nationality or creed. In fact the term originated in the United States. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fundamentalism&x=26&y=11

Fundamentalism is dangerous whoever practices it.

[TacitBlue]

[quote]Removing the suicide element, there is no difference

[dcunning30]

[quote]That is the problem, as Westerners, we can't and never will be able to understand or accept fundamentalism, in the same way I cannot understand that in some American schools, Evolution is not allowed to be taught, because some religious zealots have said so. Removing the suicide element, there is no difference

[Hagar]

Imagine a pro-creation Christian in "those" American Schools going to an evolutionist and forcing him/her to embrace creation at gunpoint.

This is exactly what happened to thousands of so-called 'Heretics'  during what is loosely referred to as the Inquisition.

Nothing much is new in history. The main difference with the 'terrorists' we're faced with now is that they're prepared to sacrifice themselves to achieve their aims. Note that their leaders don't seem so keen to sacrifice themselves.

[dcunning30]

And one other point that I forgot to mention:

The ONLY schools in American that have the freedom to include or exclude evolution in their curriculum are privately funded schools.  All government schools follow the NEA guidelines which teach primary and secondary curriculums regarding evolution.  But typically in their zeal, the instructors in the primary and secondary schools tend to present the THEORIES of evolution as accepted fact.  Usually, the only students who to have been equipped to understand the difference between theories and facts in this regard tend to come from households that you may characterize as zealots.  When these students question ther veracity of the presented material, the instructors reluctantly concede the point.

[dcunning30]

[quote]
This is exactly what happened to thousands of so-called 'Heretics'

[Hagar]

It is amusing to see references to events that occurred many hundereds or even over 1000 years ago to support a point of view regarding events that are occurring today.

Until people realise that this is the whole point we will get nowhere.