Dieppe rewritten

[Steve M]

There is a documentary about the truth around the battle in Dieppe WW2 coming to the History channel.
I can't provide a link yet.. but heres one for Dieppe-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieppe_Raid

It seems the battle of Dieppe wasn't a failure, but rather a huge success and the German enigma machine was involved. I think in my area it airs around Aug 27, 28. Watch for it!

[Flying Trucker]

Will be looking for that one Steve....thanks....

[wifesaysno]

Ill watch it but numbers lie much. The 2 major objectives as far as I am aware was to do a test run of an amphibious assault and the big one: Lure the Luftwaffe out into a major open battle to fatally cripple it...On the 2nd objective it was a disaster. The Fw-190 shocked the Brits, roundly outperforming the Spitfire's and the Typhoon had a very bad start (several lost their tails diving escaping from attacking RCAF Spitfires). As far as the 1st objective, it indeed was a success...the Allies (us) learned we were no where near ready to carry out a major amphibious assault. Pretty much every reason the Normandy landings were successful came from a reason why the Dieppe landing was a disaster.

[Steve M]

Ill watch it but numbers lie much. The 2 major objectives as far as I am aware was to do a test run of an amphibious assault and the big one: Lure the Luftwaffe out into a major open battle to fatally cripple it...On the 2nd objective it was a disaster. The Fw-190 shocked the Brits, roundly outperforming the Spitfire's and the Typhoon had a very bad start (several lost their tails diving escaping from attacking RCAF Spitfires). As far as the 1st objective, it indeed was a success...the Allies (us) learned we were no where near ready to carry out a major amphibious assault. Pretty much every reason the Normandy landings were successful came from a reason why the Dieppe landing was a disaster.

I heard an interview with the author on radio last week, who dug through thousands of documents and found things that weren't public until recently. The actual invasion was only a diversion while a special team carried out the actual mission successfully and virtually unnoticed. Try to catch the documentary as I haven't seen it yet I can't say more than what I heard. The author claims it rewrites the way we currently view the battle.
That battle and it's ultra secret mission was instrumental in keeping the supply lines to Britain open for the rest of the war.

[wifesaysno]

Ill watch it but numbers lie much. The 2 major objectives as far as I am aware was to do a test run of an amphibious assault and the big one: Lure the Luftwaffe out into a major open battle to fatally cripple it...On the 2nd objective it was a disaster. The Fw-190 shocked the Brits, roundly outperforming the Spitfire's and the Typhoon had a very bad start (several lost their tails diving escaping from attacking RCAF Spitfires). As far as the 1st objective, it indeed was a success...the Allies (us) learned we were no where near ready to carry out a major amphibious assault. Pretty much every reason the Normandy landings were successful came from a reason why the Dieppe landing was a disaster.

I heard an interview with the author on radio last week, who dug through thousands of documents and found things that weren't public until recently. The actual invasion was only a diversion while a special team carried out the actual mission successfully and virtually unnoticed. Try to catch the documentary as I haven't seen it yet I can't say more than what I heard. The author claims it rewrites the way we currently view the battle.
That battle and it's ultra secret mission was instrumental in keeping the supply lines to Britain open for the rest of the war.

If it has to do with the U-boats, Im not so sure the tremendous losses suffered were worth it. Escorts of convoys were becoming increasingly more numerous and more powerful throughout the war. The real clincher in the war for the Atlantic was the tightening of 'the gap' in the middle via use of "very long range" anti-submarine aircraft like the modified B-24s. Point is, it is arguable. So to me, I would still call it a failure albeit one that taught important lessons that would lead to several far more successful landings.

[Steve M]

Ill watch it but numbers lie much. The 2 major objectives as far as I am aware was to do a test run of an amphibious assault and the big one: Lure the Luftwaffe out into a major open battle to fatally cripple it...On the 2nd objective it was a disaster. The Fw-190 shocked the Brits, roundly outperforming the Spitfire's and the Typhoon had a very bad start (several lost their tails diving escaping from attacking RCAF Spitfires). As far as the 1st objective, it indeed was a success...the Allies (us) learned we were no where near ready to carry out a major amphibious assault. Pretty much every reason the Normandy landings were successful came from a reason why the Dieppe landing was a disaster.

I heard an interview with the author on radio last week, who dug through thousands of documents and found things that weren't public until recently. The actual invasion was only a diversion while a special team carried out the actual mission successfully and virtually unnoticed. Try to catch the documentary as I haven't seen it yet I can't say more than what I heard. The author claims it rewrites the way we currently view the battle.
That battle and it's ultra secret mission was instrumental in keeping the supply lines to Britain open for the rest of the war.

If it has to do with the U-boats, Im not so sure the tremendous losses suffered were worth it. Escorts of convoys were becoming increasingly more numerous and more powerful throughout the war. The real clincher in the war for the Atlantic was the tightening of 'the gap' in the middle via use of "very long range" anti-submarine aircraft like the modified B-24s. Point is, it is arguable. So to me, I would still call it a failure albeit one that taught important lessons that would lead to several far more successful landings.

I think I could link you to the interview but you might have to sit through 15 minutes of other stuff. If your interested I'll dig up the podcast. I can't say much until I see the program. Many lives lost in Dieppe, yes, but according to this author they did not die in vain and possibly saved many more lives.


For those who are interested here the podcast

http://www.570news.com/listen/listenpla ... g-10th-3pm

[andy190]

If it has to do with the U-boats, Im not so sure the tremendous losses suffered were worth it. Escorts of convoys were becoming increasingly more numerous and more powerful throughout the war.

If you hadn't noticed the Second "Happy Time" as the Germans called it was in full swing in August '42.

The Allies didn't manage to blunt the U-Boat threat till mid '43 at the earliest.

[Flying Trucker]

Not sure, but did I miss something here???

[glow=yellow,2,300]"outperforming the Spitfire's and the Typhoon had a very bad start (several lost their tails diving escaping from attacking RCAF Spitfires"[/glow]

Why would Royal Canadian Air Force Spitfires be attacking Royal Air Force Typhoons?

[Hagar]

Not sure, but did I miss something here???

[glow=yellow,2,300]"outperforming the Spitfire's and the Typhoon had a very bad start (several lost their tails diving escaping from attacking RCAF Spitfires"[/glow]

Why would Royal Canadian Air Force Spitfires be attacking Royal Air Force Typhoons?

When it first entered service the Typhoon was sometimes mistaken for the Fw 190 by Allied fighter pilots. This led to identification stripes being painted on the wings.

The only reference I can find to Typhoons losing their tails at Dieppe was while attacking Fw 190s. http://spitfirespares.co.uk/reference13.%20html.html

The Dieppe operations in August 1942 was the first official combat use of the RAF Typhoon, they bounced a formation of FW 190s south of Le Treport, diving out of the sun and damaging three of the German fighters, but two of the Typhoons did not pull out of their dive owing to structural failures in their tail assemblies.

PS. I just found this: The wing took part in Operation Jubilee, the Dieppe landings of 19 August 1942, flying three sweeps on the fringe of the main action. No.266 was the only squadron in the wing to achieve any successes on the day, claiming one Do.217 destroyed and one probably. At this stage in its career the Typhoon was plagued by identification problems, and [glow=yellow,2,300]the pilot who scored the victory, Plt Lt Dawson, was killed when his aircraft was shot down by a Spitfire on the way back to England[/glow]. In the aftermath of this incident the Typhoons were given yellow wing bands. Late in 1942 these were replaced by a white nose and black under-wing stripes, then finally by black and white under-wing stripes, which were used across 1943.

[Flying Trucker]

Interesting Link Doug...thanks...

[wifesaysno]

If it has to do with the U-boats, Im not so sure the tremendous losses suffered were worth it. Escorts of convoys were becoming increasingly more numerous and more powerful throughout the war.

If you hadn't noticed the Second "Happy Time" as the Germans called it was in full swing in August '42.

The Allies didn't manage to blunt the U-Boat threat till mid '43 at the earliest.

Actually, for one I DID notice and the 'blunting' started to occur in November '42, not mid '43. My point was that the presence of capable ASW aircraft with increasingly effective convoy escort ships and sub-hunting corvettes, the U-boat went from "a predatory wolf to a hunted dog" in the words of

[RAFSB]

Just a note.
One of the Regiments involved in the Dieppe Raid was from Windsor, Ontario. The Essex and Kent Scottish.

[Steve M]

Just a note.
One of the Regiments involved in the Dieppe Raid was from Windsor, Ontario. The Essex and Kent Scottish.

I had the date wrong in my original post. If you would like to watch it I think it's this weekend. If any of you see the show it would be nice to hear your comments. I'm stuck working all weekend and not sure I'll catch the first showing. Thanks for the input my Cambridge comrad!

[andy190]

I should point out that the British war industry still out produced the German throughout the war. Even through the Battle of Britain and all the convoy raids.

That was because the Germans only switched to a war economy in '44 (i.e. 4 factory shifts a day rather than 1).

By then you lot (The US) had busted Jerries

[Webb]

If it's on the history channel it's been rewritten - poorly.

Wikipedia

Subjects include mythical creatures, monsters, UFOs, aliens, truck drivers, alligator hunters, pawn stores, pickers, religions, disaster scenarios, and the apocalypse scenarios ...

Some of the aired programs compare contemporary culture and technology with the past, while other programs focus on subjects such as conspiracy theory, religious interpretation, UFO speculation, and reality television. In particular, the History Channel has aired a number of films on Nostradamus, as well as a special series on doomsday that promulgates various popular 2012 theories ...

What a joke.