A Few Fact's of WW2... part 1

Discussions on History. Please keep on topic & friendly. Provocative & one sided political posts will be deleted.

A Few Fact's of WW2... part 1

Postby Theis » Sun Jan 01, 2006 7:27 am

The first German serviceman killed in the war was killed by the Japanese (China, 1937), the first American serviceman killed was killed by the Russians (Finland 1940), the highest ranking American killed was Lt. General Lesley McNair, killed by the US Army Air Corps. So much for the allies.
From John Arterbury. Lt. General Lesley McNair was killed by accidental Allied bombing in France. Cite: Crusade by Rick Atkinson

Further, from Captain Robert A. Lynn, The highest ranking U.S. general killed by enemy fire was Lt. General Simon Bolivar, Jr. He was junior to Lt. General Lesley J. McNair, who was killed by U.S. bombers.


The youngest US serviceman was 12 year old Calvin Graham, USN. He was wounded in combat and given a Dishonorable Discharge for lying about his age. (His benefits were later restored by act of Congress.)
The item above was confirmed by a note from Richard Graham of Canton, TX who says: The story about Calvin Graham enlisted in the navy at the age of 12 is a true story. he was a cousin of mine. The last time I talked to Calvin was at a family reunion several years before his death.


At the time of Pearl Harbor the top US Navy command was called CINCUS (pronounced "sink us"), the shoulder patch of the US Army's 45th Infantry division was the Swastika, and Hitler's private train was named "Amerika." All three were soon changed for PR purposes.
Dave Walker writes: Insignia of the 45th Infantry Division. The 45th Infantry Division gained its nickname, "Thunderbird" division, from the gold thunderbird. This Native American symbol became the division's insignia in 1939. It replaced another previously used Native American symbol, a swastika, that was withdrawn when it became closely associated with the Nazi party.


More US servicemen died in the Air Corps than the Marine Corps. While completing the required 30 missions, your chance of being killed was 71%.

Not that bombers were helpless. A B-17 carried 4 tons of bombs and 1.5 tons of machine gun ammo. The US 8th Air Force shot down 6,098 fighter planes, 1 for every 12,700 shots fired.
Bill Talbott, Major, USMC (Ret) offers some interesting Discussion of Aircraft Kill Claims.

Germany's power grid was much more vulnerable than realized. One estimate is that if just 1% of the bombs dropped on German industry had instead been dropped on power plants German industry would have collapsed.

Generally speaking there was no such thing as an average fighter pilot. You were either an ace or a target. For instance Japanese ace Hiroyoshi Nishizawa shot down over 80 planes. He died while a passenger on a cargo plane.

It was a common practice on fighter planes to load every 5th round with a tracer round to aid in aiming. This was a mistake. The tracers had different ballistics so (at long range) if your tracers were hitting the target 80% of your rounds were missing. Worse yet the tracers instantly told your enemy he was under fire and from which direction. Worst of all was the practice of loading a string of tracers at the end of the belt to tell you that you were out of ammo. This was definitely not something you wanted to tell the enemy. Units that stopped using tracers saw their success rate nearly double and their loss rate go down.

When allied armies reached the Rhine the first thing men did was pee in it. This was pretty universal from the lowest private to Winston Churchill (who made a big show of it) and Gen Patton (who had himself photographed in the act).

German Me-264 bombers were capable of bombing New York City but it wasn't worth the effort.
According to Bill Douglas, the Me-264 was a prototype that never went into production. Although the design was theoretically possible of a mission to New York, there was never an operational aircraft to test the theory. One reason for canceling the project was that Hitler felt the isolated bombing of New York would do more to rile the US public against Germany than any damage that was achieved.

According to Captain Robert A. Lynn, the Me-264 V-1 DID FLY on 23 December 1942 but the Me-264 V-2 was destroyed in an air raid. The Ju-290 was the designated mid-air refueler for the Me-264. There was no loss of effort on the Germans part but the project suffered from the following: shortage of design and construction capacity, personal rivalries between Goring, Milch, and Messerschmitt, and shortage of production capacity. An air raid on 18 July 144 on Memmingen destroyed the Me-254 V-1 as well as parts of the V-3 and V-4. (cite: Hitler's Miracle Weapons-Volume 1: The Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine by Friedrich George)


A number of air crewman died of farts (ascending to 20,000 ft. in an unpressurized aircraft causes intestinal gas to expand 300%).

The Russians destroyed over 500 German aircraft by ramming them in mid-air (they also sometimes cleared mine fields by marching over them). "It takes a brave man not to be a hero in the Red Army" - Joseph Stalin

The US Army had more ships than the US Navy.

The German Air Force had 22 infantry divisions, 2 armor divisions and 11 paratroop divisions. None of them were capable of airborne operations. The German Army had paratroops that WERE capable of airborne operations. Go figure.

When the US Army landed in North Africa, among the equipment brought ashore were 3 complete Coca-Cola bottling plants.
Image Bar by Mees
Image
User avatar
Theis
Major
Major
 
Posts: 4846
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 6:16 am
Location: Denmark

Re: A Few Fact's of WW2... part 1

Postby Ivan » Sun Jan 01, 2006 8:08 am

The Russians destroyed over 500 German aircraft by ramming them in mid-air
Difference is that they usually fought above land and under 5000 meters, giving the pilots a chance to get out of their aircraft alive if they survived.

When they safely ejected behind enemy lines they walked back to the closest airbase or amy unit. In other cases they waited for the ground troops to reach their position, or were grouped together by the partisans who then called for a Li-2 to get them back to their units.

Some aircraft (I-16) had extra-strong wing leading edge to keep the wings intact when hitting the enemy tail or wing.

they also sometimes cleared mine fields by marching over them
Usually captured Germans, deserters from their own army and death-row prisoners.
The German army had instructions to avoid capture by the Russians at all costs...
Russian planes: IL-76 (all standard length ones),  Tu-154 and Il-62, Tu-134 and [url=http://an24.uw.hu/]An-24RV[/ur
Ivan
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 5805
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2003 8:18 am
Location: The netherlands

Re: A Few Fact's of WW2... part 1

Postby WebbPA » Sun Jan 01, 2006 8:06 pm

At the time of Pearl Harbor ... the shoulder patch of the US Army's 45th Infantry division was the Swastika... Insignia of the 45th Infantry Division. The 45th Infantry Division gained its nickname, "Thunderbird" division, from the gold thunderbird. This Native American symbol became the division's insignia in 1939. It replaced another previously used Native American symbol, a swastika, that was withdrawn when it became closely associated with the Nazi party.

The Pearl Harbor attack was December 7, 1941.
WebbPA
Ground hog
Ground hog
 
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: A Few Fact's of WW2... part 1

Postby Felix/FFDS » Sun Jan 01, 2006 8:30 pm

Thunderbird and prior division patches

I can see why the division changed their patch!
Last edited by Felix/FFDS on Sun Jan 01, 2006 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Felix/FFDS
User avatar
Felix/FFDS
Administrator
Administrator
 
Posts: 16776435
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2001 9:42 am
Location: Orlando, FL

Re: A Few Fact's of WW2... part 1

Postby TacitBlue » Sun Jan 01, 2006 10:46 pm

The Pearl Harbor attack was December 7, 1941.


Yes, but everyone knew who the Nazis were in 1939.
Image
A&P Mechanic, Rankin Aircraft 78Y

Aircraft are naturally beautiful because form follows function. -TB
User avatar
TacitBlue
Major
Major
 
Posts: 3856
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:33 pm
Location: Saint Joseph, Missouri, USA

Re: A Few Fact's of WW2... part 1

Postby WebbPA » Sun Jan 01, 2006 11:03 pm


Yes, but everyone knew who the Nazis were in 1939.

I didn't and if you did you're lying about your age.

The "fact" says that " At the time of Pearl Harbor ...  the shoulder patch of the US Army's 45th Infantry division was the Swastika"
WebbPA
Ground hog
Ground hog
 
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: A Few Fact's of WW2... part 1

Postby TacitBlue » Mon Jan 02, 2006 12:01 am

I see that now. I must read more carefully in the future.
Image
A&P Mechanic, Rankin Aircraft 78Y

Aircraft are naturally beautiful because form follows function. -TB
User avatar
TacitBlue
Major
Major
 
Posts: 3856
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:33 pm
Location: Saint Joseph, Missouri, USA

Re: A Few Fact's of WW2... part 1

Postby C » Tue Jan 03, 2006 4:07 am


German Me-264 bombers were capable of bombing New York City but it wasn't worth the effort.
According to Bill Douglas, the Me-264 was a prototype that never went into production. Although the design was theoretically possible of a mission to New York, there was never an operational aircraft to test the theory.


It is thought that at least one made the transatlantic crossing for a bit of NY sight seeing from about 9 miles away... :)
User avatar
C
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 11977
Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 1:04 pm
Location: Earth

Re: A Few Fact's of WW2... part 1

Postby Ijineda » Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:54 am

German Me-264 bombers were capable of bombing New York City but it wasn't worth the effort.
According to Bill Douglas, the Me-264 was a prototype that never went into production. Although the design was theoretically possible of a mission to New York, there was never an operational aircraft to test the theory. One reason for canceling the project was that Hitler felt the isolated bombing of New York would do more to rile the US public against Germany than any damage that was achieved.


If it would have been possible, Hitler would have done it at the end of the war. Same as the V2.
Intel Quad Core 2 Extreme Q6600 @ 2.60GHz - Radeon HD 4850 - P5N-D - 4 GB RAM
Ijineda
Captain
Captain
 
Posts: 875
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2004 8:36 am
Location: Vienna, Austria

Re: A Few Fact's of WW2... part 1

Postby Hagar » Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:16 pm

If it would have been possible, Hitler would have done it at the end of the war. Same as the V2.

I think the Amerika Bomber project had been abandoned by that time.

PS. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amerikabomber
The Amerika Bomber project was an initiative of the German Air Ministry to obtain a long-range bomber aircraft for the Luftwaffe that would be capable of striking the continental United States from Germany. Requests for designs were made to the major German aircraft manufacturers early in World War II, long before the US had entered the war.

The most promising proposals were based on conventional principles of aircraft design and would have yielded aircraft very similar in configuration and capability to the Allied heavy bombers of the day. These included the Messerschmitt Me 264 (an all-new design), the Focke-Wulf Fw 300 (based on the existing Fw 200), Focke Wulf Fw Ta 400 and the Junkers Ju 390 (based on the Ju 290). Prototypes of the Me 264 were built, but it was the Ju 390 that was selected for production. Only two prototypes were constructed before the programme was abandoned, although it is widely claimed (and widely disputed) that the second prototype made a trans-Atlantic flight to within 20 km (12 mi) of the U.S. coast in early 1944.
Last edited by Hagar on Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image

Founder & Sole Member - Grumpy's Over the Hill Club for Veteran Virtual Aviators
Member of the Fox Four Group
My Google Photos albums
My Flickr albums
User avatar
Hagar
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 30864
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2002 7:15 am
Location: Costa Geriatrica

Re: A Few Fact's of WW2... part 1

Postby dcunning30 » Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:21 pm

the highest ranking American killed was Lt. General Lesley McNair, killed by the US Army Air Corps. So much for the allies.


General Simon Bolivar Buckner Jr. was killed by a Japanese bullet on Okanawa.  I think a General outranks a Lt. General.  But it's cool, nice list!   :)
TURKEY TROTS TO WATER GG WHERE IS RPT WHERE IS TASK FORCE 34 RR THE WORLD WONDERS
User avatar
dcunning30
Major
Major
 
Posts: 1541
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 5:34 pm
Location: The Land of Nod

Re: A Few Fact's of WW2... part 1

Postby Hagar » Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:35 pm

[quote]General Simon Bolivar Buckner Jr. was killed by a Japanese bullet on Okanawa.
Image

Founder & Sole Member - Grumpy's Over the Hill Club for Veteran Virtual Aviators
Member of the Fox Four Group
My Google Photos albums
My Flickr albums
User avatar
Hagar
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 30864
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2002 7:15 am
Location: Costa Geriatrica

Re: A Few Fact's of WW2... part 1

Postby dcunning30 » Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:38 pm

Another account says he was killed by richocheting artillery fire. Doesn't say which side the artillery was fired from but it does confirm that he was the highest ranking American to die during the war. http://www.answers.com/topic/simon-bolivar-buckner-jr


Trust me, it was Japanese.
Last edited by dcunning30 on Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
TURKEY TROTS TO WATER GG WHERE IS RPT WHERE IS TASK FORCE 34 RR THE WORLD WONDERS
User avatar
dcunning30
Major
Major
 
Posts: 1541
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 5:34 pm
Location: The Land of Nod

Re: A Few Fact's of WW2... part 1

Postby Hagar » Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:40 pm

[quote]Trust me, it was Japanese.
Image

Founder & Sole Member - Grumpy's Over the Hill Club for Veteran Virtual Aviators
Member of the Fox Four Group
My Google Photos albums
My Flickr albums
User avatar
Hagar
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 30864
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2002 7:15 am
Location: Costa Geriatrica

Re: A Few Fact's of WW2... part 1

Postby C » Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:47 pm

I suppose the Duke of Kent would be the UK's highest ranking casualty. He had held the rank of Rear Admiral in Naval Intelligence, and then Air Vice Marshal (eq. Maj Gen) on transferring to the RAF in 1940, but had relinquised the rank to become an Air Commodore as Staff Officer, Training Command at the time of his death in an air crash in 1942.
User avatar
C
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 11977
Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 1:04 pm
Location: Earth

Next

Return to History

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 399 guests