Really, an amazing website...

[expat]

Funny how we always try to attach modern day values to things that took place decades ago as if it will make the slightest bit of difference.

I am English, I lost 3 Uncles, one on a fishery vessel strafed in the Channel and two on HMS Hood.
My wife is German, she lost one grandfather and one uncle. When we married, the remaining grandfather became my Opa too. I was treated like to 5 grandchildren until his death last week. Move on people, there are just too many if's in life and getting hot under the collar is not going to get any ware, except the thread locked maybe.

Charlie, great website, shame about the rest.

Matt

PS, Just out of interest Opa was an armourer on JU52's in the war and saw service for the Russian Front to Crete and he hated Hitler!

[Papa9571]

[quote]

If anything, we (America) is most guilty of all.

[myshelf]

PS: I cannot help but to lament the lack of any emotinal restraint in this thread.

i'd rather lament the lack of respect for human life.

[Scorpiоn]

Japan's culture at that time was that of the warrior. Japan believed that if you surrendered you had lost your honor and deserved to die. There were many beheadings of prisoners, both military and civilian, by Japanese officers that were designed to keep the troops and remaining population in check. Their culture was so ingrained into the populace that had it become necessary to invade the home islands it was estimated there would have been over a million Allied casualties. In fact the Pentagon was originaly built to be a hospital so those casualties could be handeled.
The allies bombed Japan the way they did because Japanese industry at that period of the war was centered in those districts. The populace was also trained to assist in repelling any invasion and, like on Okinawa, would have killed themselves rather than face capture.
Japan had no intention of surrendering until the Ultimate bomb was droped twice.
That ended the war with Japan and saved many, many allied casualties but killed many civilians.
Do not blame the allied cause because of the bombing in Japan. They could have had it stopped at anytime by surrendering but that wasn't part of their culture.

And before you decide to go on any more about America and their WW2 bombing campaing remember this.

You and I both live in the only country that has used nuclear weapons in anger.

The Bushido code works best with the Bushido class, which effectively ceased to exist after the Meiji Restoration.  Many, if not most, of the average Japanese fighting men were farmers who had been drafted into the military.  Most of the brutality willingly handed out by the Japanese was a product of brutality within the system.  The constitution of 1890 only cemented the military's foothold in the government.  By the early 20th century the military had taken control of the government to such a degree, that schools were simply a prepping course for military values.  I forget if colleges ever fell victim, but needless to say they were under heavy pressure.  Japan's culture has little to do with the Bushido code and plenty to do with government brainwashing.  The Bushido code was just another propaganda tool for the military.  At any rate, each class in the hierarchy was expected to show subservience to its superiors and, as is natural of human behavior, many individuals chose to abuse thier submissive inferiors.  There was only one place all this pent up stress and frustration could go when it reached the foot soldiers - anyone not on their side, most often cilivilians, but occasionally prisoners as well.  It's no surprise then for the things that happened to have happened.
 Also, can you really blame the Japanese for training, or at least trying to train, the entire population to fight back?  I think any country would do the same, to some degree.  Churchill authorized the formation of peppered guerilla squads when faced with a German invasion.  It's only natural to want to protect your home.
 I simply don't see how civilian bombing aided Operation Downfall.  Low level saturation bombing resulted from high winds negating everything high altitude precision bombing offered.  With the amount of Superfortresses that could be, and were, put in the sky, there was no need for firestorms.  This is simply retribution.  Sadly, this was an acceptable tactic of the day, and no amount of debate can change that.
 And I wouldn't say the nuclear bombs were used entirely out of anger.  While they were a necessary evil, getting combat results and beating Russia to Japan to secure control over surrender term played quite I factor.

Just my two cents.  Apologies if it's incoherent; I'm in a rush for work.

[beaky]

How comes my country is still ONLY associated with the bad sides of national sozialism?

I think that, aside from the babbling of the ignorant, that you'll find less of that attitude outside Germany than within. Had Hitler not risen to the heights he attained, America would probably have eventually found itself at war in that decade with Japan and /or the Soviets anyway... it's pretty obvious. The stage was set, the spotlight was waiting, and Hitler characteristically moved to the center to get all the attention, dragging Germany with him.

But the Allies were fighting on two fronts half a world apart, having been caught with their pants down by two nations to be reckoned with when agitated: Germany and Japan. There was never any assurance of victory on the front lines throughout that conflict, as we were woefully unprepared (especially the US). What the Russians did on the ground on their western border and in Europe was miraculous, all things considered; America and GB could hardly hope to do the same, so the doctrine of "total war" was applied as regards air power. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were the ultimate expression of that (although the prior bombing of Japanese and German cities produced much more suffering and destruction in total)- call it terrorism if you want, but the alternative (assuming peace could not be achieved) would have been much worse for both sides, I think. And let's not forget that the Axis was doing their utmost to do the same, especially Germany. If the Luftwaffe had the capability to strike civilian targets in the US before, say,  Dresden, what do you think Hitler would have done? And if Roosevelt  had hesitated after Pearl Harbor, instead of immediately stretching to the absolute limit to strike Tokyo, do you suppose Tojo would have simply withdrawn his navy to concentrate on securing the Pacific for Japan, or might he have pressed farther?
  Maybe at the end the German and Japanese people became casualties of a preliminary power struggle between America and Russia (the less of Europe left standing for Soviet occupation, the better, as far as the western allies were concerned... and then there was Truman's alleged comment about intimidating Stalin with actual deployment of atomic weapons against Japan), but the bottom line is that Germany under Hitler and Japan under Tojo scared the hell out of the rest of the industrialized world and we were getting our asses kicked  at greater and greater expense every time we coinfronted them, so drastic measures were taken.

It's unfortunate that so much talent and love of country made all of that a reality, but some of us respect the resolve, inventiveness, and courage of the German and Japanese people at that time (and since that time) nonetheless. Those who obeyed their masters, and those who defied them (and we so rarely hear about them!)... they all deserve our respect.