Graf Spee, Scharnhost, Gneisenau

[Felix/FFDS]

All have in common that these  German ships were sunk or scuttled in the South Atlantic area ....



Interesting reading that both the Admiral and the ship (Spee) lost their lives in the same general area, the Admiral (and two of his sons) in the Falklands Islands, and the ship in Montevideo.

[ATI_7500]

Yeah,'though the german ships raged quite well on the oceans,they didn't have a long life....sad,sad.

[Woodlouse2002]

Nicely put Felix, except that the Scharnorst was sunk off the North Cape near Norway. And Gneisenau was scuttled off Poland.

I don't know where your getting your facts from here Felix but if its a book then I would throw it out the window.

P.s. Its nice to know your not totally infallible.

[Felix/FFDS]

Nicely put Felix, except that the Scharnorst was sunk off the North Cape near Norway. And Gneisenau was scuttled off Poland.

I don't know where your getting your facts from here Felix but if its a book then I would throw it out the window.

P.s. Its nice to know your not totally infallible.

Scharnhost and Gneisenau - both sunk in the Battle of the Falklands - 8.DEC.1914  - Formerly of the Imperial German Asian Squadron ...

http://www.german-navy.de/hochseeflotte ... index.html

You really didn't think I meant the WW2 ships?

Admiral Spee was the commander, and went down with the ship.  His other sons were on other light cruisers that were sunk ....

The WW2 ship, Graf Spee was scuttled in the River Platte.

[SilverFox441]

I'm more interested in the German Raiders, Atlantis, Pinguin and Moewe...

Remarkable piece of work and great military value for the investment.

I also knew that Felix couldn't possibly have made such an egregious error.

[Felix/FFDS]

I also knew that Felix couldn't possibly have made such an egregious error.

Thanks for your trust...

I would propose the theory that the WW2 ships were named after their WW1 predecessors.  

In the Imperial German Navy, the East Asia Squadron was noted for their gunnery expertise.  At the start of the War, the squadron operated independently and realized that its base at Tsingtao, China was untenable.  While it raided some of the French Southeast Asia territories, the presence of Allied (British/Australian/French/New Zealand) forces endangered its existence, so Spee decided to make his way to the western coast of South America.

It's presence noted, the British South Atlantic squadron was sent to "destroy" the German light cruisers, or to shadow them....  Unfortunately, the ships available to the Royal Navy were older cruisers with neither the firepower or speed to deal with the two light cruisers and supporting vessels.  In the Battle of Coronel, the British flagship cruiser "Good Hope" was sunk in three salvos - one short, one long, and the third on the mark.

While there was a battleship, the Canopus, with 12-in guns, this was an older battleship, and its guns had only the same range as the German's smaller calibers.

In addition, at this time, the British Naval gunnery was not up to the standards of its foe, and many of the ships were manned by recently activated reservists.

However, a few weeks later, the two German light cruisers and other vessels met their fate.  Only the Dresden escaped (with Lt (future Admiral) Wilhem Canaris aboard) , but was scuttled in a Chilean harbor to prevent its capture by the British.

[Woodlouse2002]

Ok then, why talk about WWI and WWII ships in the same topic. Of course its going to cause confusion. One more point. Graf Spee was a battleship in WWI. The one you're talking about is the Admiral Graf Spee.

[Felix/FFDS]

Ok then, why talk about WWI and WWII ships in the same topic. Of course its going to cause confusion.

Little old (emphasis on the old) me, cause confusion?

One more point. Graf Spee was a battleship in WWI. The one you're talking about is the Admiral Graf Spee.

Technically, Maximilian Johannes Maria Hubertus, Reichsgraf von Spee ...

[Hagar]

Don't say I didn't warn you Woody.

Despite all my best efforts I've only caught the wily old Felix out once & that was on a technicality. I'm biding my time. My chance will come one fine day but I might be too old & doddery to enjoy it.

[Woodlouse2002]

Well this has refeshed my memory that Germany did have a fleet in Asia in WWI. My downfall here is that the first Scharnorst and Gneisenau were Cruisers and so not listed in my book of battleships.

The first Graf Spee was a battlecruiser that never completed construction.

Now another point, why bring Scharnorst and Gneisenau into it in the first place as they are totally irrelivent to your point in the demise of Graf Spee and the ship of the same name.

[Felix/FFDS]

Now another point, why bring Scharnorst and Gneisenau into it in the first place as they are totally irrelivent to your point in the demise of Graf Spee and the ship of the same name.

1. Admiral Graf Spee was the Commander of the East Asia Squadron, and his flagship was the cruiser Scharnhorst, the Gneisenau being the other main ship of the squadron.

2. All were German ships of war that were sunk in the same geographical area (albeit in two wars)

3. The three names - Spee/Scharnhorst/Gneisenau figured prominently in two wars.

[Woodlouse2002]

Because the Admiral Graf Spee was the Commander of the East Asia Squadron, and his flagship was the cruiser Scharnhorst.

Fair do's. Now another question. Is the Admiral Graf Spee you are referring to the pocket battleship or the man himself?

[Felix/FFDS]

Fair do's. Now another question. Is the Admiral Graf Spee you are referring to the pocket battleship or the man himself?

The man who commanded the East Asia Squadron.

25 years later, the pocket battleship was scuttled.