Flying lessons (advice, locations, etc)

[machineman9]

So I've recently discovered that I have a grant from my grand parents that will contribute towards any form of education or 'lessons' that I would like, and learning to fly counts as one of them. So naturally, I'm taking them up on this offer. I've kept a bit of a low profile around flying lessons for a while, so I'm just trying to get back into the frame of mind for it again, and I have some questions for you all.

I suppose first and foremost is where to fly, and what in. When I learnt to drive, we were careful to choose a tutor vehicle that was a close match to the car I would drive after I had passed (in terms of performance and size... The lime green colour was only for the purpose of learning though  ). Now being only 18 years of age, I'm not really in the position to be buying an aircraft. That all said and well, I would love to be flying a low-winged aircraft, with a strong preference on a center stick for control, instead of a yoke. It just feels very instinctive to me like that. Current options seem to be a Grob 115, or a Diamond DA-20 or something along those lines. What else should I keep an eye out for? Typical learner aircraft typically include the Cessena 150 and PA-38 .

Should I focus on finding an airfield that has a particular runway surface? I would like to fly tarmac runways in the future, but is that a major thing to look out for now? A lot of places have grass.

What will I need to buy to be able to fly? I have a pair of sunglasses all sorted already! Things like headsets, charts, general equipment, etc. What will I need?


The nearest airfield to me would be Arclid, with the Cheshire Microlight flyers. Is there any way to get some hours on their fixed wing microlights, then convert up to get the JAR-PPL? It would greatly reduce travel costs.


My nearest aerodromes include: Arclid, Sleap, Cosford, Manchester Barton, Liverpool and Hawarden. Of notable mention, Shoreham seem to offer a decent course, and my sister lives in Long Beach, in California. So there would be an interesting option! 

My uncle is a retired RAF officer, so I'm hoping his service number is still valid and that they may accept it for family discounts too.


So any advice would be useful.

Cheers.

[SaultFresh]

So I don't live in England, so I'm afraid I can't say much about great schools to train at, but what I do know is that a good school (in my opinion) should be one with a sizeable fleet (that are well maintained), a multitude of options (PPL, CPL, night ratings, multi-ratings, IFR ratings, Instructor Ratings, and/or Float Ratings), and most importantly, it has to be a good environment, somewhere friendly and fun, a place where you will learn, and get along with the instructors.
As far as Microlights go, you may want to look into the regulations surrounding the PPL requirements. I know here in Canada, those that fly Ultralights, and those that fly Gliders, are allowed to use a certain amount of hours that they have gained from Ultralights and/or Gliders towards obtaining their PPL, so I would imagine something similar in Britain as well.
As well, it sounds like you already have, or know what you will need. I would suggest having your own headset, kneeboard, fuel tester, the appropriate VNC for your area. Now, in Canada, we have this book called the Canadian Flight Supplement, basically it's like a phonebook for airports. It's got every registered airport across Canada, and all the information that pertains to that airport (such as phone numbers, airport diagrams, elevations, everything right down to how far away the nearest telephone is away from the airport). So I'm not sure if something similar exists in Britain or even Europe, but if it does, I would suggest investing in something like that as well, as it could be quite beneficial in the event of an emergency.
Lastly, as far as aircraft go, every aircraft is different, so I wouldn't worry too much. The school where I learned to fly used Zlin 242L's (the largest fleet of them in North America) for PPL, Night Rating, CPL, and Single Engine IFR training, as well as Emergency Manoeuvre Training (which meant they could pull of some pretty crazy stuff, since those planes are fully aerobatic trainers), and they used Piper Seminole PA44's for Multi- and Multi-IFR ratings. Since graduating from college, I've moved back home, and the local airport has Cessna 152's, 172's, DA20's, DA40's, DA42's, and PA44's. I can honestly say that flying the 172, although not near as much fun as the Zlin, is a very stable aircraft, very simple, and after flying a few aircraft, it's not hard to transition between them, as the basics are always the same. And I'm saying this from my own experience (although I'm not saying that I would have changed my training aircraft), before beginning my Instructor Rating, I had never flown a Cessna (only the Zlin and PA44), and so to fly the 172 for the first time, let alone from the right seat, was not near as difficult as I had imagined. They seem fairly forgiving (I kind of wish I had done my Single-IFR training in one, aerobatic planes are only fun in the sun, haha), so I would recommend that.
I hope some of this helps, and I hope any information I have given is relatable.

[pete]

Assuming you wish to keep costs down (who doesn't?)

Basic requirements:

Chart of your area (1:500,000) & permanent markers + nail polish remover to remove lines. Get this folded by your instructor if possible!
1:500,000 Aviation ruler with miles/KM
Aviation protractor
Flight computer
Kneepad
Timer/stopwatch (amazon)


Headsets - well your school should lend you one until you decide which type to buy. There are plenty of good 2nd hand examples on ebay plus your school may have a 'for sale' notice board.

Books: Your flight school will tell you which ones to buy or may lend you them.

The 1st thing you need to do is find your best local flying school. If you have several visit them and get a sense of what they are like. Friendly and professional is what you should look for. Any good school will be very eager and helpful. Google so see what others are saying. Judge for yourself over google results as they can sometimes be misleading.

Your instructor will advise you on what to buy and when.

[expat]

My uncle is a retired RAF officer, so I'm hoping his service number is still valid and that they may accept it for family discounts too.

Well, I am not sure what you mean here, but his number is his number until the day he dies and beyond. Numbers are not recycled.
As far as discount is concerned, as a general rule it is for the person who has served. In the UK, military discount is few and far between and you are only looking at a couple of quid off anyway. In the States it is offered all over (they know how to treat serving and ex-serving members of the military), and when visiting, my first question upon being asked to pay is "military discount", however, in order to get it, you have to produce a photo ID saying you are entitled, i.e, an ex or serving member. I think the only thing that will get you that is by signing on the dotted line..........

Matt

[machineman9]

Thanks, Pete. My current watch is a chrono with tachymeter (always good for speed/distance/time calculations) and has a 30 minute stop watch. I suppose a digital read out one couldn't hurt either.

[GlobalHobo]

My current watch is a chrono with tachymeter...

Q: How do you know you're in a place that's holding a pilot's job fair?

A: There's a bunch of guys milling around in cheap suits and big watches.

[machineman9]

My current watch is a chrono with tachymeter...

Q: How do you know you're in a place that's holding a pilot's job fair?

A: There's a bunch of guys milling around in cheap suits and big watches.

[machineman9]

So far, I think I'm fairly hooked on the idea of flying at Hawarden. I just need to wait and hear about the rates and possible discounts from Cosford though.

I would really like to fly a stick aircraft, but I don't think it's going to happen. There are DA-20 and Grob 115 training schools, but none are close. Blackpool is the closest I can find, and they're about 85 miles away. A weekend commute is a maybe, but I could just save a lot of money for flying anyway. A return on the train would set me back about

[SaultFresh]

I think training on an aircraft with a stick instead of a yoke is a good idea, as I find the yoke provokes people into using both hands on the control column, when really you should only be using one. I also think learning on an aircraft with the traditional analog six pack is great too, because then you get used to hard stuff. It's always easier to move from the traditional, to the glass cockpit, instead of the other way around.

[machineman9]

I think that makes for a good point, and not one I had really considered.

I might as well learn to fly properly, then become modernised. And I might as well spend a little extra cash (it really isn't that much more) to fly something exciting, largeish, and of reasonably high power. The Firefly has a solid history of being a military trainer... And I plan to progress into military life.

[expat]

Generally, a serviceman's family is his next of kin, that being wife/husband/partner and children. But you never know, asking does not cost anything.

Matt

[C]

The Firefly has a solid history of being a military trainer... And I plan to progress into military life.

Apart from in the USAF, although they pinned the blame firmly on Slingsby (well, they would, even if all the other operators haven't had similar problems), and tried to put a relatively small firm out of business.

I haven't really looked at training prices recently, but you may find if you're looking for a more modern aircraft such as the G115 (maybe not the older G115A, which is most common and not as capable as the later G115D/E) or the newer Fireflys, you'll pay a little bit more. The DA-20 is a bit cheaper, but not as meaty.

You're most important consideration is probably the reputation and professionalism of any training school - aircraft type and runway surfaces available should possibly be secondary considerations - for example it'll be cheaper to do a PPL in a

[Flying Trucker]

Well "machineman9" it looks like you have received some very knowledgeable replies from the above members...

What I read in your post about

[machineman9]

Yeah, I found out that it was a 115A at Barton, which is yoke controlled. And that's not really my thing at the moment. I'm really just trying to factor in travel costs as well as ground school... I think Blackpool want you to do ground school at Barton. Other, closer, fields seem to offer it on the home turf.

I'm just waiting on my A level results (this Thursday) before I approach the RAF and talk about all of my options. I'm sure having a valid JAA-PPL can only ever be worth more points in my application. I just want to see what advice they could offer me, or if they could even point me in the direction of bursaries or scholarships; most of which are retained for Air Cadet members, but they must have a local arrangement or something like that to get discounts.

Type conversion is of course another possibility. I think I really just need to get the 'ground work' sorted and consult the local fields to try and get their best offers. Some airfields are holding back their fares from the public eye. Many offer 'PPL 45 hour courses', but I'm hoping that I could get something a little more tailor made. It never hurts to ask!

[C]

Yeah, I found out that it was a 115A at Barton, which is yoke controlled.

You learn something new everyday! Didn't know that. Must make it the most cramped cockpit in the world!

I'm just waiting on my A level results (this Thursday) before I approach the RAF and talk about all of my options. I'm sure having a valid JAA-PPL can only ever be worth more points in my application. I just want to see what advice they could offer me, or if they could even point me in the direction of bursaries or scholarships; most of which are retained for Air Cadet members, but they must have a local arrangement or something like that to get discounts.

A PPL may not necessarily give you too much extra in an application, certainly professionally. It may be seen as an indicator (albeit quite a pricey one) of you motivation however. Beware though, as you may fine them very "cool" about any ambitions to be an RAF pilot, as currently recruitment is minimal, or maybe more accurately, zero, into the pilot branch, and is likely to be so until 2013/14 give or take. That said, the upper age limit is 24.5 IIRC, so you've a bit of time in hand, and could "easily" wait that long if necessary.

PS, the RAF aren't the only sponsors: http://www.gapan.org/career-matters/scholarships/

The airline floodgates are about the open too. BA Sponsorship back on after a decade! Hooray for a more selective airline pilot pipeline - only a good thing for the customer.