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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090721/ap_ ... e_spending

The senate agrees with Obama and removes the F-22 money and wants to invest in a new F-35. 8-)

Fail

Fail

EPIC fail.

Obama is putting a price on Freedom, the Defense of Our Country, and even saving soldiers lives.

Yes, the F-22A Raptor is a very expensive plane... But it's a plane that very few others can compete with.

It's in an entirely different league than the Eurofighter and Rafale, but the Russian Su-47, Su-37, Su-35, Su-33, and MiG-35's can all compete with it, and possibly even surpass it in capabilities. China is also developing it's J-10's.

These planes all surpass any of our current aircraft; and even the F-35 to some degree... Yet only a couple of those can compete with the F-22A. What happens when the F-35 pilots are ambushed by a couple Su-35's? A plane with more power than the F-35, and thrust vectoring? Allowing for better energy control, as well as tighter turns... Those F-35's are in trouble. The F-22A has 70,000 pounds of thrust at it's disposal, with thrust vectoring capability as well. It CAN go toe-to-toe (wing-to-wing?) with planes such as those.

Stupid move, Obama. Just my opinion, but Stupid Move.

I imagine, if there might be a later need for the aircraft, then production might start again; like if there's a war or an arms race. And the USAF will still have around 180 F-22s till then.

Sorry Isakk but thats utter rubbish.
Firstly the upgraded varients of typhoon in the pipeline are more than a match, and even current spec have much better high speed manueverability than the raptor.
but more importantly. You wont be going to war with any of those aircraft.
I dont know where your getting your info, but the Su-47 is not even in production and likely wont be any time soon
the Su-37, on simmilar terms to the typhoon at best, I was at farnborough in 1996 when they both debuted for flying displays, and they were very simmilar.
Mig-35. Again in developement and knowing russian budgets unlikely to see the light of day.

Something though most those have is multirole capabilities.
The F-22's days are gone much like the first gen typhoon with the end of the cold war.
High agile air superiority fighters are a thing of the past. Just because its cool doesn't make it useful.

Please keep this about the AIRCRAFT and not the politics or the keys will come out.
Thank You

How much cheaper are the F-35s than F-22s anyways?

F-22 : $137.5 million per plane


F-35 : $83 million per plane


source: wiki

Please keep this about the AIRCRAFT and not the politics or the keys will come out.
Thank You

Sorry if its my fault wasn't trying to bring the politics into it.


http://www.popsci.com/military-aviation ... -22-raptor

Here's a link to some diffrences between the aircraft. It sounds like the F-22 could be more useful since they both are made for ground attack but the F-22 is also for air-to-air combat and could be the "stealthiest aircraft ever" as known on a few websites I read.

Although the big diffrence is the price tag

President Obama
[quote]"As Commander-in-Chief, I will do whatever it takes to defend the American people. But I reject the notion that we have to waste billions of taxpayer dollars on outdated and unnecessary defense projects to keep this nation secure. And that

In reply to THIS.So you want to spend billions on an aircraft because it looks nice :-?

Fail >:(

EPIC fail.

Obama is putting a price on Freedom, the Defense of Our Country, and even saving soldiers lives.

Yes, the F-22A Raptor is a very expensive plane... But it's a plane that very few others can compete with.

It's in an entirely different league than the Eurofighter and Rafale, but the Russian Su-47, Su-37, Su-35, Su-33, and MiG-35's can all compete with it, and possibly even surpass it in capabilities. China is also developing it's J-10's.

These planes all surpass any of our current aircraft; and even the F-35 to some degree... Yet only a couple of those can compete with the F-22A. What happens when the F-35 pilots are ambushed by a couple Su-35's? A plane with more power than the F-35, and thrust vectoring? Allowing for better energy control, as well as tighter turns... Those F-35's are in trouble. The F-22A has 70,000 pounds of thrust at it's disposal, with thrust vectoring capability as well. It CAN go toe-to-toe (wing-to-wing?) with planes such as those.

Stupid move, Obama. Just my opinion, but Stupid Move.

I agree 100%, this nation needs the F-22 for national defense. And if a war does break out betwwn the US and China or Russia we can't get the F-22 back into production fast enough to combat the Russian or Chinese threat!!! And 180 F-22s is not enough to defeat 1,500+ Russian air superiority fighters, multirole fighters, bombers, and attack aircraft!
And the F-22 is SOO superior to the F-35!!!
And I hope the admins don't see this, but Just another reason to dislike Obama! *SHHH*

Fail >:(

EPIC fail.

Obama is putting a price on Freedom, the Defense of Our Country, and even saving soldiers lives.

Yes, the F-22A Raptor is a very expensive plane... But it's a plane that very few others can compete with.

It's in an entirely different league than the Eurofighter and Rafale, but the Russian Su-47, Su-37, Su-35, Su-33, and MiG-35's can all compete with it, and possibly even surpass it in capabilities. China is also developing it's J-10's.

These planes all surpass any of our current aircraft; and even the F-35 to some degree... Yet only a couple of those can compete with the F-22A. What happens when the F-35 pilots are ambushed by a couple Su-35's? A plane with more power than the F-35, and thrust vectoring? Allowing for better energy control, as well as tighter turns... Those F-35's are in trouble. The F-22A has 70,000 pounds of thrust at it's disposal, with thrust vectoring capability as well. It CAN go toe-to-toe (wing-to-wing?) with planes such as those.

Stupid move, Obama. Just my opinion, but Stupid Move.

I agree 100%, this nation needs the F-22 for national defense. And if a war does break out betwwn the US and China or Russia we can't get the F-22 back into production fast enough to combat the Russian or Chinese threat!!! And 180 F-22s is not enough to defeat 1,500+ Russian air superiority fighters, multirole fighters, bombers, and attack aircraft!
And the F-22 is SOO superior to the F-35!!!
And I hope the admins don't see this, but Just another reason to dislike Obama! *SHHH*

Come on, the US and Russia have been developing better ties. It's unlikely they will go to war.

No offense raptor, but you need to go check the facts as well.
The USAF alone has almost twice the number of fighter jets than the Russians. Then take into account the 22-1 kill ratio of the F-22.
So if they end up with the 170 F-22's then on paper thats a kill total of 3740 for the depletion of the F22 forces.
Yes I know its not that simple but thats what it would be on paper.
Then take into account the US Navy, who can lend their F-18's, marines as well. There is absolutely no need for a large force of air defense fighters.
Then you have to take into account that a large number of the Russian airforce aircraft are made up of Mig 29's and Su-27's All these fancy highly agile fighters you hear of are either still experimental or short in numbers. Now take into account the Russian airforce has a very poor service record so you can then take out maybe a hundred aircraft at any one time.
The bulk of the Russian airforce right now is made up of fighters which are matched and outclassed by the likes of the F-15 and F-16's. So silly spending isn't needed.
Especially when you consider the chances of an airwar against the Russians or even the chinese is miniscule at best.
The wars that are fought today require air support and precision strikes. The F-22 is not designed for this role. the aircraft that are, are getting to the end of their service life and the aircraft that is needed to replace them needs all the money it can get.
The most important thought behind this decision is not, ooh it can do fancy tricks, it is what can be the most useful aircraft to protect the lives of the men on the ground who need its help the most.

If only the SHAR were still in service...would like to see that take on a raptor....

Waste of money if you ask me (though I admit they look nicer than the F35s, but the latter are probably more useful....and cheaper)

.mic