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Cobra

PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:57 pm
by Rich H
How exactly do you perform the Cobra? And why can't so many western designs do it?

Re: Cobra

PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:35 pm
by expat
How to do the cobra
As to why Western aircraft can't do it, probably something to do with the agricultural building techniques of the Russian design bureaus. Try that in a Western thoroughbred and you will probably end up sitting in a carbon and aluminum cloud that is rapidly descending ;D

Re: Cobra

PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:18 pm
by C
How exactly do you perform the Cobra? And why can't so many western designs do it?


Probably because no one ever bothered to a) try it, or b) write flight control software to allow it. ;)

Re: Cobra

PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:34 am
by Splinter562
Supermaneuverability is the new kid on the block as far as dog fighting is concerned. It really didn't start to develop into its current form until the 1980s, which is why you are only just seeing western aircraft with this capability.

The whole thing hinges on post-stall maneuverability. Typically in a stall, aircraft lose a majority of their control effectiveness and are designed to nose down in the event of the stall for the purpose of recovery. As fighters evolved, they got lighter and more powerful. The previous generation of fighters started to approach 1:1 thrust weight ratios (or even exceed 1:1 in lightly loaded situations). With that kind of power on tap, people started thinking about ways of using stalls to point the nose quickly, then using power to drive out in the desired direction. In order to do so effectively, the aircraft needs to be designed in such a way that it is still readily controllable through and past the stall. Most older aircraft are simply not designed for this because with less power, there isn't anything to be gained in the post-stall regime. At this time, the most popular way of achieving post-stall maneuverability is though the use of thrust vectoring, which is the system you see coming out up many next generation fighters.

So, to put it in simple terms. Two requirements for supermaneuverability:
1 - Post-stall maneuverability
2 - Better than 1:1 thrust to weight ratio

Developments in supermaneuverability are not limited to the world of fighters. In recent years "3D" flying has become wildly popular among R/C aircraft. Supermaneuverability is a large part of 3D flying. Instead of using thrust vectoring to achieve post-stall maneuverability, R/C aircraft use the prop-wash from high-powered engines to maintain control effectiveness well into the stall regime as seen here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHS6d4zOqF0

Re: Cobra

PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:08 am
by Slotback
Won't escape a JHMCS cued Aim-9X.

Re: Cobra

PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:46 pm
by pepper_airborne
Vodka, its designed to force a chasing plane to overshoot. Not to dodge missiles.

Re: Cobra

PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:26 pm
by specter177
It's designed to wow a crowd at an airshow. I guess it could force a plane to overshoot, but I've heard that the risks outweigh the awards.

Re: Cobra

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:45 am
by OVERLORD_CHRIS
Yeah but if you are being chased by some one trying to kill you in a dog fight at that point, you are willing to try any thing to come out on top, regardless of how crazy it is, if it works, you win. If not, you had better have a back up plan, or start looking for a safe place to punch out.

Re: Cobra

PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:50 am
by C
It's designed to wow a crowd at an airshow.


The nail has a headache. Good shot. :)


Anyone in a dogfight in this day and age (from a modern well equipped nations) has had "an issue" somewhere down the line, or is training.

Re: Cobra

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:20 am
by flavio
the risks outweigh the awards.


if you live by that you'd never dogfight in the first place.

Re: Cobra

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:28 pm
by The Ruptured Duck
How exactly do you perform the Cobra? And why can't so many western designs do it?

Its the combat philosophy.  The USAF, USN, and USMC would rather blow the hell out of something miles away rather than risk the pilot and a multi-million dollar aircraft.  Think of it as using fewer aircraft to kill more aircraft; the opposite philosophy would be that more aircraft should be used to overwhelm and kill the few.  Its been the Philosophy for a while.

Re: Cobra

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:39 am
by beaky
The cobra is impressive, but nowadays dogfighting aircraft very, very rarely get close enough to make it useful in combat. Can't dodge a heat-seeking missile with it... ;D