Simviation Forums

Sad news: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7883338.stm

Two Grob Tutors near Porthcawl, collided in mid-air.

Not good.

TSC.

Not good at all.

Oooo!

I was wondering what the aircraft could have been as I could make out a RAF roundel on one of the photos...  :-/

One of my cadet adult staff just sent me a link about it.

Very bad indeed. Especially that it could have been doing AEF.


I just want to know how this could have happened. My thoughts to all those affected... Bit annoyed that it happened to the Tutor as well - One of my favorite aircraft.




edit: My cadet officer said that apparently cadets have been identified as 2 of the dead. Very bad news indeed. I don't think this has ever happened before, at least not to my memory.

edit: My cadet officer said that apparently cadets have been identified as 2 of the dead. Very bad news indeed. I don't think this has ever happened before, at least not to my memory.

Of dear. That's terrible news. I'm sure it has happened before but probably not for a long time.

PS. This was probably the last one. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_west/3139195.stm

Truly awful

Just seen the report, two female air cadets amongst the dead, they were cousins as well.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090211/tu ... 23e80.html

Truly awful, my sympathies to all involved.

TSC.

Possibly the most tragic loss of life in UK military aviation in years - certainly since the Wessex incident. The news just got worse and worse all afternoon.

RIP to all, and lets hope there aren't too many consequences for the future of Cadet flying due to today's sad events.

Tragic news...

..Illustrates just how small the sky can suddenly be, when there are two Aircraft in the same airspace at the same time.

Paul...

Deeply saddening. RIP.

RIP to all, and lets hope there aren't too many consequences for the future of Cadet flying due to today's sad events.

Unfortunately accidents no longer happen. I imagine collective injury lawyer are already knocking on doors and the Heath and Safety Nazis are planning as we type to ban cadets from the deadly pursuit of flying.

Matt

I agree with machineman9 i  too was a cadet and  flew the tutor numerous time and for this to happen is very shocking i hope it never happens again there was only one bailer who sadly died i dont know if this was one of the cadets or a pilot it must be awful it will have certainly shook the entire Wing and core itself there was only one other accident with the tutor before it came short of the runway only damage done was to the nose wheel and engine when it hit the fence no one was hurt and the only accident that has taken cadet life was a wessex helicopter flight that tail rotor failed above a lake certainly not a very pleasant thing to happen

there was only one other accident with the tutor before it came short of the runway only damage done was to the nose wheel and engine when it hit the fence no one was hurt

Hello Tezza, welcome.

There have been a couple of others with the Tutor, including two forced landings, one of which was caused by a renegade prop hub shedding a blade near Boscombe Down (IIRC the other was a stude doing a practice forced landing  near Cosford, which for some reason became a real one). The incident you mention I take is the foreign (Kuwaiti IIRC) stude who stalled on finals, and got away with it.

Our commanding officer made us make an unofficial act of secrecy. Though to my knowledge no one at our squadron was directly affected, I think all cadets are being warned to not talk about it... Not to the press... Not to friends etc. If it's not official, it shouldn't be made to sound that way, which I totally agree with. So to stick with that, everything here after is probably just common knowledge.

I don't think there are many who aren't a bit shaken by this. Chances are so slim, but as proved it can happen. No one is really sure what will happen to cadet flying after this. Precautions may be made and flights may be suspended. It is all just a matter of waiting.

At the end of the day all us cadets are the same. Not every squadron likes each other, but we all wear the same badge and we all do the same even if we are trying to be better than the huts down the road. To lose people from this 'family' and the 'family' which we work closely beside (The RAF) really does affect everyone.

I only really gained started to realise the magnitude of it when we all had to come to attention to hear the news from our officer... Though everyone had heard, it still had to be repeated.

We are all trained to some degree when we go flying. We are given a parachute, helmet and flying suit. Everyone must watch a safety brief and see a practical demo of wearing the parachute. I believe they are starting to make you sign to agree you saw it all and remembered the brief. The Tutor seems to be a sturdy enough aircraft. Nearly 10 years of service and it seems only to have had a few incidents. Pilots were trained, and being RAF they were obviously trained highly. It is just bad luck that whatever happened, did.



As the CO put it, we should move on. Perhaps not the family and friends concerned, but certainly the rest of the organisation. We specialise in flying... So to remove that is removing what we are all about. It happened, it does happen, it will happen again. Just have to not let it stop you doing what you want to do.


Some say the best way to die is to die doing what you love. One of the pilots was apparently retired - I doubt he started helping out with flights 'because he had to'. The other was apparently a serving member of the RAF. I doubt he joined up to be a pilot 'because he had to' either. The cadets, they joined and asked to go flying because it is what they loved to do, or what they've wanted to experience. Every AEF I've been to I've seen new cadets fly and come back saying it was the best thing they've done. If there is anything good that can be drawn from this, it is that everyone there was there because they wanted to be there. They were flying because the wanted to be flying. They were doing what they love, and they died doing what they loved. Some say it's the best way to go.

Hopefully this can work to making flying safer for everyone. As I saw it put on a program the other day... "How can a hurricane be good if it kills 10,000 people?" "It is good because you can plan ahead and help prevent the deaths of 100,000 people the next time one strikes". Nobody wanted it to happen, but it could help out many others in the future.

At the risk of being heartless, your CO is right. Move on and if you can still go flying. If it was not for the internet, this would have been a sad story that would have been in the news for a day, the papers the following day and then the families would have been left to grieve in peace. Today we seem to have to dwell on death far to much and discuss at length how much uninvolved people hundreds of miles away are effected by an event. During my time at Her Majesty's Service, we lost aircraft, two that I was the last person to spanner on (replacing major critical components ((pilot error at the end of the day)), you may all be horrified to hear, but the way the RAF gets over such things is very, very black humour, no stiff upper lip to be seen. I am not in any way suggesting that you crack a few jokes, but there is also no need for anyone to become consumed by this event. Hopefully this will have no effect on cadet flying. Being an ex-spacecadet, sitting on the back ramp of a Hercules (many, many moons ago) dangling your feet over the edge (with a rather large strap around my waist), as you where flown around the Wiltshire countryside, well I think you can imagine the smile on my face......only slightly smaller than my back seater in a Harrier T10 before myself and the RAF parted company. I do hope that this will not curtail the flying that you are able to do, however, I am not holding my breath.

Matt