Regional Airlines - Pilot Wages

[Xyn_Air]

This is a bit of a random curiosity question (but, then again, most of my questions are) as I am not planning a career change from what I do into piloting.  Anyway, I heard that newer pilots for the regional carriers make $24,000 or less per year in the U.S.

Anyone know how accurate or inaccurate that is?  Like most jobs, I fully believe that the newer you are to it, the less your pay is going to be.  But, I just found it incredible that pilots would make less than, say, teachers.  Still, it is all about economics, isn't it?

Anyway, information appreciated.

Thanks,
Darrin

[beaky]

They make less than most sanitation workers, at least at the entry level.
airline execs, on the other hand...

Here's a rather cynical, but probably accurate, take on the subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RayMaswju1A

[Wii]

Dam. Looks like I'm going to hafta work hard to become a pilot..and live. If you worked in 20hours (of flights) a week...you'd get paid roughly $20 USD an hour...minimum wage is what? 5 or 10? :-/ :-/

[Xyn_Air]

They make less than most sanitation workers, at least at the entry level.
airline execs, on the other hand...

Here's a rather cynical, but probably accurate, take on the subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RayMaswju1A

RD,

I saw this very same video, and I was wondering if it were true.  I also wonder if there is a scale that takes into account how much/how often a pilot flies.

For example, in teaching there are substitute teachers, part-time teachers, full-time teachers, and then somewhere in a different universe, tenured professors at major universities.  Educators all, but on completely different pay scales.  I know the "idea" behind the part-time teachers is that they work less hours, and so they are paid less (though often they are worked far beyond the stipulations of their contracts).

Anyway, I was just wondering . . . as I usually do.  Heh.

Thoughtfully,
Darrin

[DaveSims]

The small liner pilots do indeed make very little money.  At that stage in an airline pilot's career you are just building time and living like a broke college student, almost like an internship of sorts.  I do find it amusing that the airliner's I have to give fire coverage are manned by crew making much, much less that I do.

[Xyn_Air]

The small liner pilots do indeed make very little money.  At that stage in an airline pilot's career you are just building time and living like a broke college student, almost like an internship of sorts.  I do find it amusing that the airliner's I have to give fire coverage are manned by crew making much, much less that I do.

Wow!  This is all news to me!  Thanks for the additional information.  Huh.  I guess, since I idolize pilots a bit, that I always figured they were making solid pay.  I wasn't under the illusion that pilots were becoming millionaires from flying, but I thought they would be making at least something near lawyer and doctor level income.  Heh, but then again, aybe I am overestimating how much doctors and lawyers make, too!

Usually what drives price in free markets has a lot to do with supply and demand.  So, I would imagine that there must then be a greater supply of pilots than the demand for them, especially at the "regional" level.  If so, I guess the question would be why?  Hm . . .

Did average income for pilots drop significantly after 9-11?  After the deregulation of airline companies in the U.S.?  Some other time?  Were they always low?

As always, further information is greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Darrin

[Mobius]

You might try poking around this website:  http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/

It seems they have some helpful information in there, particularly in the "Airlines" section.

[DaveSims]

[quote]

Wow!

[beaky]

Another positive: because of the limited duty hours per month, if you have some other skill that can be put to work on a very flexible schedule, like some sort of online  work or maybe shining shoes, you can supplement the meager wages by working when you're off-duty.

Many more-senior airline pilots nowadays do just that, especially once they have settled into some kind of routine: they start their own business or do some sort of freelance work. Even veteran line captains don't make what they used to, in terms of how much their paycheck buys... and with the gutting of most pension plans, they have to worry a little more about their standard of living when they are finally put out to pasture. The days of two weeks off playing golf or whatever are pretty much over.

I think most noobs don't get to do much with their off time because they're either being moved around a lot or they take any standby assignment they can in order to build time.... but I'm sure a little extra income could be eked out with some creativity and flexibility.

But in the end, unless you really, really want to be an airline skipper some day, and don't care what that means in terms of lifestyle before or after retirement, it'd be wise to stay away.
As a 757 crewman I know once told a youngster (who was oohing and ahhing over a bizjet cockpit and claiming interest in flying as a career): "If you're smart, you'll start working now on getting so that you're sitting in the back of one of these, not the front!"

[newberiffic]

I just wanted to add that most carrer pilots (non big iron) corperate or regional usually have more than one gig at a time.  Whether it,s giving primary instruction to student pilots, airshows, ferry flights, bfr's, etc etc.

Most don't/can't rely on just regional airline wages.

And the ONLY reason that regionals get away with paying some newb out of college 18K a year is because they can!
If fresh pilots would grow a backbone and stand up for a wage they think is fair this would be a moot point.

the standards are dropping as the tech gets better for sure. I mean I have more information on my handheld GPS than is factory equipment in a triple 7!! weather, terrain, traffic, waas.
And it no longer takes a well seasoned captian to land those big boys.
soon cat 3 ils will be common on GA aircraft with the new s-tech auto pilots aswell.

Don't night managers at Burger king start around 30K???
with usually $0 invested in the job.

The truth is that all of us that fly do it because they love it. I have yet to meet a person and have them say that they learned to fly because of any other reason. and when presented a crappy wage to do something that we would likely do for free. we cave in!

And the economy is not helping much righ now either, I have CFI friends that are giving away free dual (your airplane) just to to stay current because the lack of students with $.

[DaveSims]

This reminds me of a conversation overheard between our FBO manager (and charter pilot)  and one of his senior charter pilots.  The manager was remarking how well he has done building his charter business after aquiring another twin for the work, when the pilot mentioned the ones doing really well are in the back of the airplane, not the front.

[RitterKreuz]

i can assure you that for the first five years as a regional airline pilot you wont make squat.

Im on year three pay right now earning about 25K annually.

Here is a link to a regional airline pay scale for skywest airlines:

http://www.willflyforfood.cc/airlinepil ... ot_Pay.php

they are about industry average

notice that most carriers guarantee about 70 - 75 hours per month. i would say if on reserve, or holding a low time line that is correct.

take year one pay at my company for example

$22.89/ flight hour multiplied times 75 hours per month = $1716.75 per month... but for  a whole year that translates to an annual income of just a hair over $20K

considering you spend about as much money earning your flight ratings as you might spend on a couple of years at law school... there is not much return for the first several years on the job.

also... you should know that these hourly rates are per FLIGHT HOUR not per hour at work, so when you are scheduled to fly 6 hours in a day... even though you are scheduled to baby sit the airplane for 3 or 4 hours your not being paid while performing such a duty. in short you only get paid when the cockpit and cabin doors are closed and people are on board.  :-/

EDIT:

in response to your question about how pilots are paid ill add this...

you get a pay scale for FOs and for Captains and it ranges from year one to year 10 for example

FO
1........ $20
2........ $21
3........ $22
4........ $24
5........ $25
6........ $26
7........ $28
8........ $29
9........ $30
10...... $33

years = how long you have been with the company multiplied by the number of hours your schedule is worth.... typical schedule is worth 75 - 80 hours.... NEVER more than 100 hours and rarely over 90 hours per month.

[Xyn_Air]

Again, I must say, "Wow!"  You guys have been great with feeding me a ton of information!

And, again, I must say that becoming a professional pilot was never even a pipe dream for me, but I do love learning more and more about aviation, even the nitty gritty details.  It all makes for a fascinating read!

Even now as I read and re-read all the information you have shared with me, I am amazed at how different reality is compared to what my random guesses were about the business side of aviation.  In some (probably superficial) ways, it reminds me of teaching and teachers (regarding pay).

Well . . . hm.  I guess I cannot even really comment more.  Thanks again for all your help!

Voraciously curious,
Darrin

[Dr.bob7]

wow didnt know they made so little...... so apparently flying a extremly complex aircraft and going to college to do so equals a tiny pay scale  :o??

[Dr.bob7]

in fact im somewhat pised as posted earlier they make the money of a sanitation worker, i mean all that work for so little pay until a upgrade