Electric aviation

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Electric aviation

Postby ozzy72 » Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:41 am

The dream of inexpensive, ecofriendly aviation has come closer to reality after a French test pilot achieved the first flight in a conventional light aircraft powered by an electric motor.
The Electra, a wood-and-fabric single-seater, flew for 48 minutes for 50km (30 miles) around the southern Alps, winning a global race to apply battery power to a fixed-wing standard aircraft.
The APAME group, founded to develop green aviation, said that the flight showed that nonpolluting, quiet light aviation was within reach.
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Re: Electric aviation

Postby Hagar » Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:09 am

This is all very well but I'm wondering how eco-friendly it really is. First there is the manufacture of the batteries & the motors which obviously uses resources like electricity & fossil fuel to produce. Presumably the batteries are rechargeable which also uses power from conventional sources. Rechargeable batteries tend to be expensive & all types have an ultimate life so they would need replacing at regular intervals. This might be as little as every 500 hours or less. Unlike conventional power units they cannot be serviced or overhauled. Finally there is the safe disposal of the batteries when their life is over. These things sound attractive but you don't get anything for nothing.

hydrogen-fed fuel cells. These will drive electric motors with power like those on French high-speed trains.

This would be the way to go if it's possible. Even so I assume the motors will be produced using conventional methods.
Last edited by Hagar on Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Electric aviation

Postby ozzy72 » Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:16 am

It is a start I suppose Doug. What is really needed is lightweight motors and efficient solar cells.... but when?
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Re: Electric aviation

Postby FsNovice » Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:34 am

This project, whilst it is a step forward, just highlights the problem with the green movement. They claim victory in green technology, but ignore what doesnt suit their argument, like the fact that Hagar mentioned, that the batteries have to be recharged, probably conventionally, which creates CO2. Hydrogen fuel is the real way forward, except to get it into planes and the like is much harder than cars, due to the issue of weight to power!
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Re: Electric aviation

Postby expat » Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:01 am

It is a big start. You don't set something for nothing. Just like wind power, everyone goes on about the carbon it takes to produce, of course it takes carbon to produce, but once it is produced, unlike fossil fueled engines it is no longer producing said carbon. The recharging carbon production argument does not hold water as it is a tiny, tiny fraction of what would have been produced if it was a fossil engine..........Yes but the power station produces the carbon..........of course, it is their just to charge you batteries and no other reason, conveniently forgetting that you leave you DVD, Video, TV, Oven, Microwave and Stereo plugged in on standby so you do not have to reset the clocks and timers each morning. Carbon neutral is a pipe dream that will never happen. Any carbon neutral product that claims to be, look closely enough and you will find it. So unless we have the wand of Harry potter in our pockets, what ever we produce with have been produced using today technology and whether you have grown, found it, discovered, it without some input from manufacturing it will remain in the state nature gave it to us. It just a question of how small you can make the carbon foot print............if you are into/a believer that is. But right now, hats of to these guys.

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Re: Electric aviation

Postby beaky » Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:32 am

The argument that battery-powered electric vehicles are not "perfectly green" is valid, however, it still compares very favorably to fossil-fuel-burners or even hydrogen-burners, and here's why:

Even if the electricity used to charge the batteries in a simple "plug in" car or plane is produced by burning coal, the emissions are much easier to control at the power plant (sequestering or scrubbing the CO2) than at the tailpipe of every vehicle out there.
I don't have the numbers handy, but I think despite pollution from the manufacture and use of batteries, that scenario compares favorably to what we have now, which has gotten better, but is still pretty nasty: smog, soot, acid rain, etc.
Also, each vehicle makes much more efficient use of the latent energy in the fossil fuel by running on electricity produced by same.

Do we all realize that gasoline yields only about 25% of its available energy in the typical internal combustion engine? Global warming aside, that's just stupid. It annoys my "inner engineer" to no end.

As for hydrogen, there's a reason why traditionally oil-friendly politicians and pundits have latched onto that as the favored "green" solution: because right now, the only cost-effective way to extract hydrogen (which is ridiculously abundant but generally bonded to some other atom) is to get it from fossil fuels (think "hydro-carbon"). Business as usual for those companies, with a few adjustments.

But it's great stuff- only emission at the tailpipe is heat and water vapor. Pretty cool, despite the challenge in making safe high-pressure containers for vehicles. Hydrogen-burning vehicles would be a good compromise that Big Oil, which has used its power to suppress green technology for decades, might accept as a compromise... however, it would be more sensible to burn the hydrogen to produce electricity for battery-powered vehicles. Safer, too... although a typical tank full of gasoline is like a bomb waiting to go off, whereas a hydrogen car's tank, if it ruptured, would probably vent very quickly without igniting, and if it did, the result would be a brief, if very hot, blowtorch effect. Hydrogen doesn't form a combustible-vapor fireball or lie on surfaces or the ground. Most of the fire and smoke seen in the Hindenburg footage was the skin burning; the big danger involved in the hydrogen burning wasn't the fire so much as the gas suddenly not being there, which kind of ends your flying for the day in a hydrogen airship. ;)

Mind you, I think all of these strategies, working together, are worth using... if that's what it takes to wean us from the current methods.

I think the Electra's flight is an exciting milestone- I am surprised that such a flight took place so soon. The challenge to make the leap in battery, solar cell and motor technology reminds me of the challenge to produce a powerplant that would be light enough yet powerful enough to work for a heavier-than-air aircraft: one of the reasons the Wrights had to make their own was because all the "experts" believed it was not possible.  ;)
Last edited by beaky on Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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