Simviation Forums

A little food for thought:

Scud running
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Very informative! Another thing for me to try on FS!

I wouldn't want to "scud run" for hundreds of miles, but if you have your VFR sectional handy, and the ceiling is well above any obstacles, and you plan the flight carefully, scud running is just like landing in a crosswind. Ya just gotta know your limitations. In fact, it's legal to fly in visibility as low as one mile if you stay in Gulf airspace. I'd never fly in one-mile visibility intentionally, but that's not always how it works out.



In this piece of a VFR sectional, the minimum

Well planned scud-running isn't as evil as it sounds. I "ran scud" barely a month ago into Ashland, Ohio... eh' Rotty ?  

I suppose technically it was, but barely so. My personal definition of the kind of scud running you don't want to do is when you're flying more by ground contact than any horizon, and there are things nearby  in the murk that are taller than your present altitude.

Ummm  errr..  wellll..  I did a bit of that on the way  TO  Ashland. By the time we flew to/from Coshocton, it was pretty decent VFR, with only threats of marginal VFR. I waited and waited at KOSU until I was reasonably sure there'd be no IMC from there to Ashland...  1600-1800msl (over mostly 900msl ground)..

Scud running is occasionally referred to as "maintaining visual contact with the ground while avoiding physical contact with it"

Isnt that the general gist of flying??

Now you made me wanna fly Doug...... Have to keep it @ Fs though Must find me a nice jet to tear up Canada's airways

Scud running is occasionally referred to as "maintaining visual contact with the ground while avoiding physical contact with it"

Isnt that the general gist of flying??

Sort of... note that the word "horizon" is not used there.
"Ground contact" flying, which is what they used to call VFR flight, involves the most basic visual information: the ground just below the airplane. You can imagine that this requires flying quite low to the ground, without much idea visually as to what lies ahead. "Scud-running" often involves that, to one degree or another. With good pilotage skills and a current chart, it's safe enough, and legal as long as you maintain the separation allowed by the FARs in a given airspace.
 I've done it in terminal areas, most notably on a diversion from cruise to a precautionary landing (due to lowering clouds, duh)  at a Class D airport in hilly terrain studded with very tall towers (Asheville, NC). .

Not surprisingly, when I told Center (I was using FF) that I wanted a vector for a visual approach to ASH, they just told me to turn to a specific heading where I would find a road that would lead me to the airport, and to maintain VFR. This is the unofficial "IFR" method: "I Follow Roads".

It was as close to legal IMC as I've ever been as PIC, and  I was frankly more worried about other scud-runners popping out of the gloom than I was about the hills and towers (even though most midairs occur on beautifully clear days). Once in the Class D it was not a big worry, but still a possibility.
It was no big deal, however: ASH was VFR, and the route there worked perfectly.

However, there's scud-running and there's scud-running. The legal limits, believe it or not, are actually quite generous (for example: in the US, in Class G airspace, which is "free" airspace, one needs to have  horizontal visibility of one mile and must remain clear of clouds, while obeying the FARs regarding altitude AGL, which is only "500 feet from any person, structure, or vehicle" in the best-case scenario.
One mile vis at 500 feet AGL (or less!) means you're already in trouble, IMHO. If your plane cannot safely fly at under 100 kts in that situation, you'd better know the area very well, or you will have more trouble shortly.
 :o

The absolute worst scud that I ever got into (far as I can remember,

The closest I've been to scud running was last Monday when I went on my first solo flight in IMC.  When I initially called Madison, the approach controller asked me to maintain my own terrain and obstacle separation, while I was in the clouds. :-? Since I'd never been asked to visually avoid the running into things while I was flying hard IFR, I called the controller back to clarify while I avoided low scattered layer.  But usually, when I go flying, I don't really have anywhere important to go, so if it looks like a crappy day, I just wouldn't go flying.  But now, I'll just file and fly IFR if I have to get somewhere.

The absolute worst scud that I ever got into (far as I can remember,  'cause if there were worse than this, I blocked it from memory), was flying my mentor from Columbus to Lima, to pick up a plane. The whole trip looked to be marginal VFR at best, but when I suggested that we just file; he said, "naw, this'll be good experience".

We took off from KOSU, SVFR (special VFR) and the first 25nm or so were nerve-testing... and got near IMC about the time we spotted Hardin County Airport. He agreed that we'd land and wait it out (we had barely 12nm to go to Lima).

It didn't get much better for an hour or so, but it was good enough to continue (by his standards). The only obstacle(s) for that last 12nm were power-lines.. and they pretty much lead us to Lima. It was genuine, 300-500agl scud.

I sat left seat; I was PIC, so I flew it...  BUT I would never have tried it alone. Was it good experience ? I'm not really sure...

Eep.  :o

At least if you're following the power lines, you'll be looking for them.

Good experience? Sure... let's say, as one example, you get iced up in IMC and have to descend. By the time you pop out you're at 500 AGL or so and you have to stay down for a while. And maybe you have no idea where you are. It would be helpful  to have seen that before... or maybe it's not worth it.

Maybe experience is to a pilot; as publicity is to a celebrity ? ..  No such thing as bad ?

Probably not..lol

That type of flying is so situational (and rare  (hopefully), that each event is it's own. Forced to think about this stuff, I've remembered another scud. Getting ready to fly back to Columbus from Nashville, TN... we were looking at beautiful VFR...   I F  ..   we could hurry up and get airborne ahead of a front that was pretty much on top of us as we were deciding. We scurried off the ground and did a little scudding around the north side of Nashville International (we took off from KJWN) my student had the sectional on his lap, and I studied the Garmin 430. We "knew" exactly where the towers were and never got near one... but I'll have to admit that in 2 mile visibility, when the strobes become visible, those towers are NOT exactly where you'd expect, and they ARE closer than you think they are. Fixed obstacles seem to move a little, when your ground-speed is near 180mph  :o

Once we got ahead of the front, it was some of the most beautiful VFR flying ever. A Cardinal can cover some serious ground at 7500msl with a 40knot tail-wind  :D


@ Mobius...   Yeah.. unless I have to be somewhere, I don't enjoy marginal VFR (much)..  And even filing is something I'd reserve for a VERY important destination. I really don't enjoy instrument flight... unless you can get on top quickly.. Then.. well.. it's something special  :)

Some very interesting posts and opinions.

When I think of SCUD RUNNERS I think of those people I found (or what was left of them) wrapped up in an aluminum burnt ball at the bottom of a rock cliff, tree, power line, bottom of a river or lake etc who with full knowledge and deliberation took off with an aircraft in below or marginal VFR.

When I was posted to Search and Rescue we had a saying about these folks.

Doug's last comment points out one of the most important factors in "sneaking under" bad wx: it sometimes gets worse.

Doug's last comment points out one of the most important factors in "sneaking under" bad wx: it sometimes gets worse.

Good point.. and brings up probably the most important consideration... Be prepared to go IMC and file on the fly..  even if it's just to cover those last, few miles... scud-running is not for pilots unfamiliar with what it's like in an IMC  cockpit ...