Ground Ejection

[JRoc]

Heard this on the radio yesterday.  A student at 15 Wing ejected from a Harvard II while still on the ramp.  There's not much in the article yet, but I'm staying tuned for subsequent reports.  Didn't have my scanner on yesterday morning... that would have been some interesting radio communication.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/saskatchewan/story/2007/04/04/pilot-injured.html

[C]

Ooops, sounds little careless. He may need a little retraining on his seat checks, but then until we know how it happened, I shalln't speculate further, although if he had minor injuries at least he must've strapped in...

[expat]

Ooops, sounds little careless. He may need a little retraining on his seat checks, but then until we know how it happened, I shalln't speculate further, although if he had minor injuries at least he must've strapped in...

And not really expecting it, so his stance in the seat would probably have been incorrect. If he had minor injuries then he is very lucky.

Matt

[elite marksman]

It also says that his instructor remained in the aircraft, so could it be a mechanical failure? It seems logical to assume that if the ejection handle were pulled, either by pilot or instructor, both seats would eject, since one normally only ejects when the aircraft has received fatal damage which may render one or both of the pilots unconscious, and unable to eject. Since the instructors seat did not eject, I would think that there was a malfunction that caused only one seat to eject.

[Mushroom_Farmer]

While stationed at Kirtland AFB I once saw an A-4 pilot eject after a nose gear collapse. He got banged up pretty good.

[JRoc]

It also says that his instructor remained in the aircraft, so could it be a mechanical failure? It seems logical to assume that if the ejection handle were pulled, either by pilot or instructor, both seats would eject, since one normally only ejects when the aircraft has received fatal damage which may render one or both of the pilots unconscious, and unable to eject. Since the instructors seat did not eject, I would think that there was a malfunction that caused only one seat to eject.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure they eject together under normal circumstances. If you've seen that cockpit video of a Bae Hawk (which happened at the very same base) sucking in a bird on T/O, the instructor asks the student if he's prepared to eject, and when he replies in the affirmative, they both bail out at the same time.

[C]

It also says that his instructor remained in the aircraft, so could it be a mechanical failure? It seems logical to assume that if the ejection handle were pulled, either by pilot or instructor, both seats would eject,

I suspect the aircraft would almost certainly have command ejection, although often the rear seat (ie, the instructor) has the ability to turn this off (normal in RAF basic FJ training) just in case the stude in an emergency lost comms and decided to eject himself unecessarily. A Hawk pilot was injured in this fashion a few years back when his student navigator command ejected him from the back seat after a nasty looking bird strike (lots of blood). He saw the blood, was shocked by the fact the canopy was no more and a little windy, and pulled the handle. The fact was the staff pilot in the front seat still had full control at the time, only to find the stick disappearing from his hands!

And not really expecting it, so his stance in the seat would probably have been incorrect. If he had minor injuries then he is very lucky

Indeed. Also lucky that it was a Zero-Zero seat. A lot of them in trainers are Zero alt but require a decent airspeed. A modern seat though on a Texan II may have some fairly gucci rocketry though.

[JRoc]

The was a front page article in the local paper about it today.  It was the student's first training flight, and what a way to begin. They're not sure yet what transpired, but damage to the aircraft is minimal - some scorching and the hole in the canopy from the primacord.  They interviewed the president of Martin-Baker, he estimated that the seat got to a height of about 200 feet.  The canopy is designed to deploy instantly so decent can be slowed ASAP, which was probably the only reason he didn't get more than a few cuts and bruises (and a hell of a scare).

Charlie, I remembered reading somewhere that the instructor's position has command of both seats - probably an afterthought after some incident.  Makes sense, if a student gets spooked and ejects, but the plane is still completely functional the instructor can land the plane, thus saving the government a load of money.

[fighter25]

It also says that his instructor remained in the aircraft, so could it be a mechanical failure? It seems logical to assume that if the ejection handle were pulled, either by pilot or instructor, both seats would eject, since one normally only ejects when the aircraft has received fatal damage which may render one or both of the pilots unconscious, and unable to eject. Since the instructors seat did not eject, I would think that there was a malfunction that caused only one seat to eject.

Dosen't each pilot have to pull their own ejection cable?

[elite marksman]

Yes, each seat will have its own handle, but on combat aircraft, pulling either would almost certainly trigger both seats. I assumed that trainers would work the same way since many are adapted from combat aircraft.

I understand that the instructor might not want to eject even if the student does, but how fit to land would you be after having someone eject within feet of you? The backblast from the charges has to be quite nasty.

[expat]

Most combat aircraft have command ejection, but that normally can only be initiated by the pilot.  If the pilot decided to leave, then the GIB does not really want to hang about, so if the pilot goes, then it makes since for the "Guy In the Back" to also bow out. Command eject from the rear, that is generally for trainers as the instructor sits in the back. I would have thought that command ejection from a non-pilot rear seat is over riding the pilot. There have been many occasions where an aircraft has been in a bad way, the rear seater has ejected and the pilot has subsequently landed the aircraft.

What do you have to say Charlie?

Matt

[C]

In reply to the previous few posts it all depends on the system. For example, on the Tucano, the command eject could only be initiated from the back seat IIRC. However, on the ground it was always set to off as an inadvertant ground ejection on the 0-70 seat would probably kill you - so ejecting you mate at the same time wouldn't go down well.

I understand that the instructor might not want to eject even if the student does, but how fit to land would you be after having someone eject within feet of you? The backblast from the charges has to be quite nasty.

It would depend. However, if the insructor is still in the aircraft he can then make the decision. If the canopies shatter independantly then most of the smoke and debris will be sucked out by the airflow rather than linger in the cockpit space.

As for this, you wonder quite how comprehensive his seat training had been to be able to accidently operate the seat...